rumors SL2 with 36MP sensor only

[NicholasT]

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One point of clarification to prior post. When referencing desired weight of SL2 I mentioned 100g to 150g, I was referencing the weight reduction versus the current SL...

Also sticking with the issue of size and weight I agree with those who have voiced concerns about the SL's weight. On the other hand if SL2 is somewhat lighter or even comes in at same weight, but can be combined with more full frame options like the Sigma 45 / 2.8 or with TL glass with less MP penalty than on current SL, the overall SL2 + lens package can change to the the point that  photographers who otherwise love the camera may start to see things differently. The 24-90 then becomes one of many options which one can chose to use on certain occasions when circumstances dictate and when lugging the extra size/weight is not an issue. 

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[sillbeers15]

On 9/6/2019 at 6:30 AM, Tailwagger said:

No doubt it's very personal, but I prefer a little heft in the body. Perhaps why I won't be ranting when the downsized S3 sensor arrives in the SL sans IBIS. 😀  

Plastic body?....Haha.

[caissa]

Amazing how the weight is so important for some users. I wonder if they are all very slim persons. I actually have some overweight, so I would find it absurd, if I would complain about the weight of a camera, which is only a few grams (overweight) compared to the several extra kilos that most inhabitants of the western world daily move around without complaining.

The SL has a certain place now, and I hope the SL2 keeps this place and character. A SL2 will not be like a M or a X1D, and I am quite glad about it. 

If a user prefers the weight and shape of another camera, that is ok. But why go on complaining that the SL does not have shape xy ... ? Do you expect Leica to follow your “design guidelines”. ?  Good luck !

Edited September 7, 2019 by caissa

[Mr.Q]

3 minutes ago, caissa said:

Amazing how the weight is so important for some users. I wonder if they are all very slim persons. I actually have some overweight, so I would find it absurd, if I would complain about the weight of a camera, which is only a few grams (overweight) compared to the several kilos that most inhabitants of the western world daily move around without complaining.

The SL has a certain place now, and I hope the SL2 keeps this place and character. A SL2 will not be like a M or a X1D, and I am quite glad about it. 

Well considering that folks over at the M forums prefer Summicron's over Summilux's over a mere 50-60 grams, it's not hard to imagine that a 2,000+ gram combo of a SL + 24-90 would be unacceptable to those people.  It's not a matter of physical traits but more to do with perception. M users are spoiled with light and small cameras, that is all. 

[lct]

15 minutes ago, caissa said:

But why go on complaining that the SL does not have shape xy ... ? Do you expect Leica to follow your “design guidelines”. ?

That's what Leica did for 15+ years with R4 to R7 bodies that were almost as compact as Leica Ms. Quite an achievement given the need for a mirror in TTL cameras then. Now mirrors are not needed anymore, which camera brands like Sony and Nikon seem to have taken into account in the design of their mirrorless cameras. Others like Leica and Panasonic prefer cameras as big as MF ones more or less. They will have more success than R8 & R9 bodies hopefully. Here is my R4s recalling an era when Leica did follow the  “design guidelines” of its customers. 

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[bags27]

1 hour ago, caissa said:

 If a user prefers the weight and shape of another camera, that is ok. But why go on complaining that the SL does not have shape xy ... ? Do you expect Leica to follow your “design guidelines”. ?  Good luck !

Of course a certain Dr. Andreas Kaufmann in an interview last year said that the current SL is on the brutal side and that it will be more elegant in the future (23:30). Do you think he might know a little something about how the camera is perceived?

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by bags27

[Chaemono]

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Maybe it’s not 36 MPx but rather this sensor: https://www.bestcameranews.com/sony-102mp-full-frame-sensor-with-6k-video-support-in-the-works/. Leica folks have said the SL lenses can match it. But even it’s not in the SL2, it could be in the SL2 UHR.  

[Chaemono]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb caissa:

Amazing how the weight is so important for some users. I wonder if they are all very slim persons. I actually have some overweight, so I would find it absurd, if I would complain about the weight of a camera, which is only a few grams (overweight) compared to the several extra kilos that most inhabitants of the western world daily move around...

I‘m ‘skinny fat.’ What camera weight would you recommend?

[FrozenInTime]

32 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

I‘m ‘skinny fat.’ What camera weight would you recommend?

Sounds like a CL with Sigma Art L 35/1.2 

[Chaemono]

 Could be. Just for clarification, ‘skinny fat’ means slim but flabby. 😁

[hexx]

9 hours ago, caissa said:

Amazing how the weight is so important for some users. I wonder if they are all very slim persons. I actually have some overweight, so I would find it absurd, if I would complain about the weight of a camera, which is only a few grams (overweight) compared to the several extra kilos that most inhabitants of the western world daily move around without complaining.

The SL has a certain place now, and I hope the SL2 keeps this place and character. A SL2 will not be like a M or a X1D, and I am quite glad about it. 

If a user prefers the weight and shape of another camera, that is ok. But why go on complaining that the SL does not have shape xy ... ? Do you expect Leica to follow your “design guidelines”. ?  Good luck !

It’s more about having something hanging around your neck or on the shoulder. Just did a couple of days ago 16km hike through Samaria gorge and can tell you that even M stayed in the backpack and all photos were taken with my phone or Sigma DP2M. 

Getting poked in the ribs by a heavy sharp edged camera after each step or jump isn’t very nice feeling  

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by hexx
Typos

[Tailwagger]

Skinny/fat/short here.  I don't see how a smaller lighter SL makes much sense given the size of the optics. The body, with battery,  per  B&H, is 1.86lb / 847g, while the 'kit' 24-90 lens is 2.5lb /1140g.  I get there are a lot of M users here, I'm one of them, but to my mind balance and solidity in hand in more important than a few ounces one way or the other. I suppose if all you expect to use is Summicrons, trimming a little would be fine, but the moment one entertains the notion of zooms or a long prime, things get awkward. The A7, for example, feels like a practical joke with even modestly large optics attached.

 As bags27 alluded to earlier in this thread, I did indeed check out original SL at our downtown Leica store.  And like him, passed on it, buying a second M instead. Not because of excess weight, but because the SL body shape, angles and straight lines made it seem more of a prototype body machined by someone a back room than an actual production camera body. Obviously others felt differently, but I came away feeling it had been designed to be gripped by a machine, not a human being.

Given the statements made, not to mention Pano going on and on about ergo at their intro, I think we can assume that Leica has learned their lesson on this front. For a 'pro level' camera, how it feels when held its pretty damn important and the original, for all its technical greatness, failed with me mostly because of it.  Numbers, be they MPx, DR range, battery life, AF speed  or weight dont tell the story, the simply create the context for it. In the end, it comes down to whether or not you feel that it's a camera you can bond with to make better photographs. Fingers crossed the SL2 will be such a camera.   

Edited September 7, 2019 by Tailwagger

[verwackelt]

All this discussions if a camera weights 600 or 900 or 1100 gramms is because most of us are armchair heros that lost their stamina and ability for long distance walking.
a working person of the 19th century wouldn´t even notice if he has to carry 2000 grams around for a day…

[lct]

7 minutes ago, verwackelt said:

All this discussions if a camera weights 600 or 900 or 1100 gramms is because most of us are armchair heros that lost their stamina and ability for long distance walking.
a working person of the 19th century wouldn´t even notice if he has to carry 2000 grams around for a day…

Sure but life expectancy was less than 40 then so at my age he would not take photographs anymore . 

 

[verwackelt]

Your are right ...
But that time we discuss the weight of the cameras we all should do more sports 😉
Using SLs instead of dumbells?

[mgrayson3]

Such an astonishing lack of empathy on display here. I prefer to shoot with a camera with some heft. The S system is my favorite. Sometimes health issues make the TL2 with 11-23 zoom the most I can carry. Sometimes just my phone. Weight training does not cure all ills.

We all do what we can.

[lct]

20 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

I get there are a lot of M users here, I'm one of them, but to my mind balance and solidity in hand in more important than a few ounces one way or the other.

+1 but balance and solidity do not require bulkiness necessarily. Been using big telephotos on my Leica R4s and Nikon D70 with no problem a all. Sounds like Leica is aiming at the professional market where big DSLRs are still in use the same way as it did with R8 and R9 cameras. 

[Chaemono]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb mgrayson3:

Such an astonishing lack of empathy on display here. I prefer to shoot with a camera with some heft. The S system is my favorite. Sometimes health issues make the TL2 with 11-23 zoom the most I can carry. Sometimes just my phone. Weight training does not cure all ills.

We all do what we can.

+1. CL + 35 Summilux-TL rules. The CL with a handgrip and a thumb-rest balances beautifully. Let’s see if the tightened and raised contrast curve of the APO 50 SL makes a discernible difference in terms of depth rendering. One is a heavy Pro combo, the other is a compact combo with Pro-like IQ. 

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[LocalHero1953]

Come on guys, some people like it heavy, some like it light. We're all different shapes, sizes, ages and strengths, and we all have different shooting preferences and subject matter. There's nothing wrong with that. Some of these posts say more about the writer than those they are commenting on.

[NicholasT]

57 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

+1. CL + 35 Summilux-TL rules. The CL with a handgrip and a thumb-rest balances beautifully. Let’s see if the tightened and raised contrast curve of the APO 50 SL makes a discernible difference in terms of depth rendering. One is a heavy Pro combo, the other is a compact combo with Pro-like IQ. 

+1 +1 

When I read comments that put down other peoples perception of weight all I can think of is tell us what you like and what you're looking for in a camera and dispense with the I can't believe that anyone would find this camera to be too big or too heavy or if you don't like it pick something else.

Most everyone on this forum is either a current and prospective customer of Leica, so its Leica's job to figure out what the sweet spot is in terms of building the right product for their target market. I have no idea if that product will be what I would like or hope. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it is and all the while respect everyone else's right to hope for something totally different.

These issues are hardly black and white or one size fits all. I've happily shot with the SL + 24/90 for couple of hours and thoroughly enjoyed it. On other occasion when I've had to carry the same setup around for the better part of a day I found it far less enjoyable. 

In summary "to each his own" as they say.