Chaemono Posted June 20, 2019 Share #101 Posted June 20, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica has SL lenses, others don’t. Wait, the FF LUMIX bodies can take them natively. Therefore, better color capture and DR in the SL2 sensor, please. Otherwise most SL lens owners will stick to the Panasonic FF bodies they just purchased. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 Hi Chaemono, Take a look here SL2?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bags27 Posted June 20, 2019 Share #102 Posted June 20, 2019 https://www.macfilos.com/2019/06/17/leica-job-losses-as-company-faces-the-second-digital-revolution/ is this what folks are talking about? The reference to layoffs got me googling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted June 20, 2019 Share #103 Posted June 20, 2019 The discounts on the SL and the Monochrom likely indicate new models to be released. The layoffs in traditional hardware/mechanical development and the 40 hirings in digital portend the transition from an opto-mechanical to an opto-digital company that Leica needs to undergo. The coincidence of the two does not imply causation, an interpretation the article falsely makes. Leica is a high cost producer. Blackstone is a financial investor. They are not only unhappy about the high rent for Leitz-Park, they probably also want Leica to outsource more of the mechanical components to low cost countries. Financial investors can exert pressure that drives efficiency and makes a business more sustainable long term but it’s a fine balancing act not to destroy values and traditions that customers associate with the brand. At the end of the day, Blackstone wants to maximize the return of their investment. If this was their intention, they should have never gotten into the camera business to begin with. 😂 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted June 20, 2019 Share #104 Posted June 20, 2019 6 hours ago, caissa said: What nonsense you talk. Speedmonsters haha. The Hassy is VvEeRrYy slooooooooooooow. That is the reality. Simply no comparison. I find such a slow camera a nuisance for general fotografy and just as nerve-wrecking as using the SL for Tethering. But the Panasonic simply fills the gap at a very affordable price. The S1R looks quite ugly but is an excellent camera inside. The X1D is unfortunately simply the opposite. Let’s see if the new X1D is suddenly a good camera... Caissa, there is no need to offend people and btw I speak after using both systems regularly for over 6 months, do you? You are annoyed, even angry, that folks are discussing a camera that you don't like? It is completely fair and, by the way, logical given that many see the hasselblad as a direct competitor. What is your problem with that? Do you work for the L-alliance or Panasonic? Finally everyone is entitled to their opinion, and entitled to see their opinion respected in discussion with other forum members. If that is not your frame of mind go and create your own forum or thread for you to manage as you heart desires .. 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted June 20, 2019 Share #105 Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Fedro said: Caissa, there is no need to offend people and btw I speak after using both systems regularly for over 6 months, do you? You are annoyed, even angry, that folks are discussing a camera that you don't like? It is completely fair and, by the way, logical given that many see the hasselblad as a direct competitor. What is your problem with that? Do you work for the L-alliance or Panasonic? Finally everyone is entitled to their opinion, and entitled to see their opinion respected in discussion with other forum members. If that is not your frame of mind go and create your own forum or thread for you to manage as you heart desires .. use the "ignore user" option...one of the best tools on this forum 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted June 20, 2019 Share #106 Posted June 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, frame-it said: use the "ignore user" option...one of the best tools on this forum thank you. I prefer to engage where possible, but I did not even realise it was an option! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted June 20, 2019 Share #107 Posted June 20, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 5 hours ago, Chaemono said: The discounts on the SL and the Monochrom likely indicate new models to be released. The layoffs in traditional hardware/mechanical development and the 40 hirings in digital portend the transition from an opto-mechanical to an opto-digital company that Leica needs to undergo. The coincidence of the two does not imply causation, an interpretation the article falsely makes. Leica is a high cost producer. Blackstone is a financial investor. They are not only unhappy about the high rent for Leitz-Park, they probably also want Leica to outsource more of the mechanical components to low cost countries. Financial investors can exert pressure that drives efficiency and makes a business more sustainable long term but it’s a fine balancing act not to destroy values and traditions that customers associate with the brand. At the end of the day, Blackstone wants to maximize the return of their investment. If this was their intention, they should have never gotten into the camera business to begin with. 😂 Thanks for this. I’m sure there’s a lot of truth in this. We see through a glass darkly, and worry even though we don’t have the facts. Still, the interview was with a top Leica official who clearly was signaling a strong change in direction to the company. And we do know that Leica in the past has made tactical errors which nearly drove them to bankruptcy. I believe current leadership of the company to be extremely impressive and effective, and the changes are designed precisely to avoid similar pitfalls. Still,, it is simultaneously a dramatically shrinking market at the high end, and yet one of rapidly developing technology requiring great investment. Very challenging and uncertain conditions ahead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted June 20, 2019 Share #108 Posted June 20, 2019 They are not well equipped for AI and Computational Imaging. Basically, algorithms will create beautiful landscape photography. Think the type of photos that Vieri and thighslapper take except there will be no camera involved and most likely no human. And it won’t end there. Think beautiful portraits completely generated by algorithms. And usually the disruptors will not be the traditional companies like Sony, Canon, Nikon. It will be new companies that have AI capabilities and don’t have the self cannibalization dilemma. Think about who is disrupting the traditional automobile industry, not only in NEVs (who knows when Tesla will run out of funds), but also in autonomous driving. In the latter it’s Google, Baidu, etc. Leica, Canon, Nikon can do everything right and still fail. It’s called the Innovator’s Dilemma. See here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator's_Dilemma Ming Thein may be seeing these signs really and is existing the photography business altogether. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted June 20, 2019 Share #109 Posted June 20, 2019 And ironically, although it will be a small market, in reaction to that brave new world film photography will continue to survive and may even grow. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted June 20, 2019 Share #110 Posted June 20, 2019 Oh for gods sake, can’t we just all go take pictures 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted June 20, 2019 Share #111 Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, jplomley said: Oh for gods sake, can’t we just all go take pictures Sure. Just post em and ignore us 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted June 20, 2019 Share #112 Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said: If that's the case then the HB will offer a small but noticeable increase in sensor IQ (sensor is the same) I’d certainly agree that the X1D is superior versus a typical c. 50mp full frame camera. But I’d take the opposite view when the S1R is used in “high resolution” mode. There, imho, I think its resolution is closer to the 100mp medium format backs, and also benefits from a lack of any digital “mess” (ie, no moire or false colour), together with even lower noise and with higher acuity vs its “normal” mode. All tripod mounted of course. Edited June 20, 2019 by Jon Warwick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted June 20, 2019 Share #113 Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Jon Warwick said: I’d certainly agree that the X1D is superior versus a typical c. 50mp full frame camera. But I’d take the opposite view when the S1R is used in “high resolution” mode. There, imho, I think its resolution is closer to the 100mp medium format backs, and also benefits from a lack of any digital “mess” (ie, no moire or false colour), together with even lower noise and with higher acuity vs its “normal” mode. All tripod mounted of course. In resolution, yes I agree. However the X1D files can still be pushed much harder in post before they fall apart due to the increased DR the X1D sensor has. My tests haven't shown the S1R get a boost in DR in high res mode. I'm still getting to know the S1R files and I think my processing will improve with time but I don't see the dynamic range in the S1R high resolution shots I see in the X1D. Gordon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted June 21, 2019 Share #114 Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Fedro said: Caissa, there is no need to offend people and btw I speak after using both systems regularly for over 6 months, do you? You are annoyed, even angry, that folks are discussing a camera that you don't like? It is completely fair and, by the way, logical given that many see the hasselblad as a direct competitor. What is your problem with that? Do you work for the L-alliance or Panasonic? Finally everyone is entitled to their opinion, and entitled to see their opinion respected in discussion with other forum members. If that is not your frame of mind go and create your own forum or thread for you to manage as you heart desires .. Why do you talk about emotions of people that you do not know at all. This is very bad style ! (Some call this simply spicing up a discussion or flaming). And you talk about my problems. Again very bad style and typically not the style of this forum. ( If I used your style I would now refer to your emotions and bad upbringing etc. Not my style.) You say that you feel offended, but your whole reply is nothing but a big offense. I can only shake the head when I read this ... So I ask you to simply stay calm and friendly and stop all of this unfair talk, which is not about the main topic SL2. This is a public forum, not a place to spread hatred and try to victimize people. What are your thoughts when you write down these unfriendly and unfounded accusations ? Again, I wonder why is it allowed to write in this aggressive style and no administrator stops this personal attack ... Please read your own note, and ponder what you would think about this, if you would receive it. So first check your own mind (you seem to be full of aggression). Your note contains not a single friendly or only neutral sentence, but is full of hate and spite. I can only say I will be careful never to reply to any of your notes again, if you regard this aggressive tone as normal. Is this a forum for discussions or for crowning a winner in a debate ? I am really surprised that this unfriendly tone is accepted and even supported by some members. Look at yourself and ask yourself if this is your typical daily behavior ? If yes, then I am really glad not having to meet you personally. Edited June 21, 2019 by caissa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted June 21, 2019 Share #115 Posted June 21, 2019 And to the X1D fans here, that are totally intolerant to any faint hint that people find this camera inferior in any way. Why do you discuss this here in a SL2 thread ? And why in such an aggressive style ? Imagine a alpha fan coming to your X1D forum and fill many pages with A9 discussions without relevance to Hassy users ? And then throwing you out of your own forum by accusing you of emotional behavior, unfriendlyness. Suggesting to shut you down by ignoring you etc. what would you think in your own forum of such behavior ? So please leave some room here to discuss the SL2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted June 21, 2019 Share #116 Posted June 21, 2019 On 6/20/2019 at 10:07 AM, Chaemono said: ...... including the octagonal bokeh balls of its lenses wide open. This was fixed with a firmware update months ago. Wide open the bokeh balls are round. Sometimes when stopped down you can still see the hexagonal shapes. This is not unique to the X1D lenses though. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted June 21, 2019 Share #117 Posted June 21, 2019 On 6/20/2019 at 9:47 AM, caissa said: ........... Flash, I know you are part of a team. So yes, I can understand that in this case you can better afford to have several different systems at the same time. I have been self employed for 25 years. One man show. I did use a second when I shot weddings but rarely otherwise. I am now semi-retired and shoot 60% of the time for fun. I could work full time for another 20 years but I don't need to so I'd rather travel, ride my mountain bikes, hang out with my kids and be with my girl. I have more than one system because I worked really hard and had many lucky breaks as a working photographer. I like playing with different systems and I can afford it, so I do. Some people do boats or cars. I do cameras. I think it takes at least a month to really evaluate a camera. And even then, a firmware update can change everything. That's what's happened with the SL, X1D and Z7 and every Fuji ever made..... Currently I'm running Leica, Hasselblad, Nikon, Sony, Fujifilm, Olympus, Pentax and Panasonic systems. The only one I don't enjoy using is the Sony's but now I have the S1R and Z7 I shall be getting out of Sony (and probably a couple of others as well). Gordon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted June 21, 2019 Share #118 Posted June 21, 2019 4 hours ago, caissa said: Why do you talk about emotions of people that you do not know at all. This is very bad style ! (Some call this simply spicing up a discussion or flaming). And you talk about my problems. Again very bad style and typically not the style of this forum. ( If I used your style I would now refer to your emotions and bad upbringing etc. Not my style.) You say that you feel offended, but your whole reply is nothing but a big offense. I can only shake the head when I read this ... So I ask you to simply stay calm and friendly and stop all of this unfair talk, which is not about the main topic SL2. This is a public forum, not a place to spread hatred and try to victimize people. What are your thoughts when you write down these unfriendly and unfounded accusations ? Again, I wonder why is it allowed to write in this aggressive style and no administrator stops this personal attack ... Please read your own note, and ponder what you would think about this, if you would receive it. So first check your own mind (you seem to be full of aggression). Your note contains not a single friendly or only neutral sentence, but is full of hate and spite. I can only say I will be careful never to reply to any of your notes again, if you regard this aggressive tone as normal. Is this a forum for discussions or for crowning a winner in a debate ? I am really surprised that this unfriendly tone is accepted and even supported by some members. Look at yourself and ask yourself if this is your typical daily behavior ? If yes, then I am really glad not having to meet you personally. I am definitely not the one being aggressive here, Caissa, unless you think that calling other people's opinions "nonsense" is some form of respect? In any case be aware that as this is indeed a public forum, you should come here with an open mind and a relaxed attitude: if it bothers you that people discuss the X1D, go and read other posts instead of getting all worked up about it 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted June 21, 2019 Share #119 Posted June 21, 2019 One advantage of the algorithms taking over the ‘photography’ world is that they will likely conduct these forum discussions less emotionally. 😁 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted June 21, 2019 Share #120 Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) emotions come from our interactions deep in our past at the kindergarten, not just through photography so forums will always be emotional 😭 but perhaps if (when?) algos take over all of a sudden in a world of perfection our technical mistakes, emotions and imperfections will show humanity and become even more charming and valuable Edited June 21, 2019 by Fedro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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