A modest proposal for a "New" Leica R

[TomB_tx]

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I wish Leica had made the R-SL adapter with mechanical linkages to detect aperture and operate auto-stopdown - of course interfacing both with the camera electronics. That would have been the true R solution.

Without that I use my R lenses on an A7 body, using spot metering and exposure lock. Quite like the way I used my R4 - but with one button focus mag.

[wbabbott3]

Thank you, I shall take a look.

[wbabbott3]

That seems like a very nice solution.

For those of us who no longer have R lenses, the Leica TL2 with three zooms which cover 16 to 202mm, 35mm equivalent, with a 24MP sensor, seems to be a revived autofocus R9-DMR, and in essence, maybe it is the up-to-now mythical R replacement.

[mmx_2]

On 8/10/2019 at 5:09 AM, TomB_tx said:

I wish Leica had made the R-SL adapter with mechanical linkages to detect aperture and operate auto-stopdown - of course interfacing both with the camera electronics. That would have been the true R solution.

Without that I use my R lenses on an A7 body, using spot metering and exposure lock. Quite like the way I used my R4 - but with one button focus mag.

I could not agree more! It should not be so difficult given the fact that the R-cameras has this technology in their mount, and adding a simple electro-magnet for this function should be fully possible! I would easily pay 1000-1500eur for such an adapter and buy into the SL-system. For Tele lenses and macro focus peaking works great, but I have difficulties trying to focus a stopped down elmarit 19 or 24. Yes , I can “just open up”, but then the “solution” becomes even more “half-measure”. And even fully open I find the elmarit 19 to be difficult to focus using focus peaking.

Being an engineer, I have even seriously thought about buying a defect R4/4s/5, cannibalize the mount and see if it’s possible to make such an adapter. It would of course need some signals from the SL, and only Leica knows the protocol, but with an oscilloscope one can find out a lot of things.

Edited September 9, 2019 by mmx_2

[wbabbott3]

Thanks. I wish us all well. Maybe Novoflex could devise an auto focus R adapter, as the say they have for Nikon G series lenses. I have't seen one yet.

[ramarren]

I just loaded my R6.2 and fitted the Super-Elmar-R 15mm lens. It is amazing how much easier it is to focus this lens with hyper-critical accuracy on the digital CL than on R6.2 that it was designed for, even with the split-image focusing screen.

Just sayin' ...

G

[wbabbott3]

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Thanks, glad it works for you. Sorry, I only have M lenses to use with the SL and the hand & finger ergonomics do not work for me. Maybe I will try M-with-CL or -TL. All things considered, I believe the TL with its there zooms is the "promised" R9 replacement, even though it is not full frame. The MB levels of the current ASP-C exceed what we got in R System days. Think about that: R system with AF.

A good friend has abandoned Leica for Sony bodies and uses M lenses with an adapter that works beautifully.

As it was said, "You pays your money and takes your choice."

Thanks again for sharing.

Edited September 11, 2019 by wbabbott3
Clarity

[jaapv]

22 hours ago, wbabbott3 said:

A good friend has abandoned Leica for Sony bodies and uses M lenses with an adapter that works beautifully.

 

Not that beautifully, it depends on your standards. An interesting article : https://gmpphoto.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-pixel-race-does-it-really-make-sense.html.  touches on this aspect. I'll cite a paragraph from it:

 

Quote

This can easily be verified.  Several other camera manufacturers allow the use of Leica M lenses on their cameras.  Take the Sony A7r for instance.  Mount a Leica 18mm Super Elmar-M ASPH on the Sony and take a few test shots.  Then compare those to the results obtained from a Leica M.  The difference is more than obvious.  But it doesn't even require an extreme wide angle lens like that.  Take a 35mm Summilux ASPH, and you will find similar difference.  The Sony sensor just isn’t capable of handling non-retrofocus lenses anywhere near as well as the Leica M does.

 

It is also interesting because it discusses the (non)sense of lens quality vs. pixel count.

 

 

[wbabbott3]

Thank you. Note that I did not say that I agreed with him as I have no data one way or another.

Thanks for the lead. I'll see what it says.

I have used Leica equipment since 1973 and have never found a reason to change.

Bill

[fernando_b]

4 hours ago, wbabbott3 said:

I have used Leica equipment since 1973 and have never found a reason to change.

Bill

I too (even if Leica user from 1991).

[fernando_b]

Just now, fernando_b said:

I too (even if Leica user since 1991).

 

[SocialKonstruct]

I doubt this will happen because the R-lenses with adopter on a Leica SL has replaced this combo.

Edited September 22, 2019 by SocialKonstruct

[SocialKonstruct]

But why make a new R camera when you can adapt those easily to a L mount camera and have better features? The R mount lenses system for digital is a dead end methtinks.

[hamey]

On 8 October 2019 at 4:31 AM, SocialKonstruct said:

But why make a new R camera when you can adapt those easily to a L mount camera and have better features? The R mount lenses system for digital is a dead end methtinks.

Yes It's true, so why bother.

The advantages today is you can adapt the R lenses to several full frame Mirroress bodies in the likes of the Nikon Z, Canon R, and Sony at a much cheaper and probably better alternative then the SL system.

Check out the price of the Leica R to SL adapter compered to the R to Nikon Z and Canon R .

What my friends in the photograph industry tell me the SL system is STRUGGLING in sales.

To be perfectly frank,  I have switched to the Fuji X system for my Digital  use and Nikon F for film and couldn't be more happier.

Whats happened to my beloved R lenses, I have retired them.

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

 

[AZN]

11 hours ago, hamey said:

Whats happened to my beloved R lenses, I have retired them.

FWIW I have gone the other way.

Invested big in Leica R lenses in 2017.  I always had a few, but bit the bullet and bought all the ones I always wanted.

They work equally well on the Leica SL or Sony R series.  One thing which did catch me early on was the R to Sony adapter - you really need to spend the extra $s to get the best quality possible, and even then you may need to shim the mount to get the lens-to-sensor distance exact.

A pleasant surprise since I started using the Sony A7RIV a couple of weeks ago is that the 20+ year old Leica R lenses hold up so well.  Was especially surprised with the Elmarit-R 19mm II, which if anything is slightly better in the corners than the A7RII!

M lenses of course struggle on non Leica digital bodies.  Luckily the following couple work well for me: Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f1.2 (m-mount) & Tele-Elmar-M 135mm f4 (#11861)

Edited October 13, 2019 by AZN
Typos (grrr...)

[lct]

12 hours ago, hamey said:

Whats happened to my beloved R lenses, I have retired them

I expect mine to be rejuvenated by the forthcoming Sigma FF mirrorless body with Foveon sensor. 

[adan]

Several points:

1) to wbabbott3 - as a confirmed split-image focuser (back to my Canon FX of 1970), I of course agree with your modest proposal. I have always found split-image to be faster than "is-it-fuzzy-is-it-sharp" plain screen focusing. Focusing on a plain screen is equivalent to "contrast-detect" AF, while a split image is equivalent to "phase-detect" AF - faster and more precise. Binary - "aligned" or "not aligned" - no ifs and maybes.

I was very interested when Fuji announced their attempt at such a technique (which was, BTW, only made possible once Fuji put phase-detect pixels on their image sensors) - but found the implementation kludgy.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2713056119/fujifilm-x100s-digital-split-image-focusing-how-it-works

2) Partly because the image processing speed was not yet ready to "draw" the split images fast enough, with enough resolution.

It is one thing to draw a nice, crisp virtual horizon-level on-screen, for example, running off data from a simple tilt-sensor - and something altogether different to animate a simulated split-image based on reading and analyzing megabytes and megabytes of live image data in rapid sequence to produce full-resolution images that "keep up" with the subject and the focusing movement. An AF processor can do it for selected points, but the processing power to present the "symbology" onto the screen for the photographer's eye to use has been lacking.

Fortunately, processing speed increases as fast as or faster than sensor technology, and is just about getting to the stage where it could handle a sophisticated graphical split-image simulation - in full-color and speed. cf: Sony's "stacked sensors," with memory and focus-processor stuck right to the back of the sensor itself. That tech will diffuse into the whole industry fairly fast.

3) Another factor with traditional true split-image SLR screens is that they use transparent prisms to split the image - and those provide "virtual images" that are always reasonably sharp and clear and easy to see for alignment, even when the lens is not in focus. In much the same way that the two images in a Leica M finder are always sharp and in focus - even when the lens itself is not in focus.

If one uses the image from the camera sensor, however, it is from a single image plane (the sensor), not a virtual image that always appears sharp. If the lens is out of focus, the available images being used to display simulated alignment in the finder are also out of focus and blurry. A half-baked implementation.

Fortunately (again) computational photography processing may eventually allow for sharpening or light-field techniques to better produce always-clear-and-sharp split-image screen graphics. (Light-field techniques = vaguely hologram-like ability to record focused sharpness in many planes at once, provided there is sufficient data and processing "Ooomph!" available).

[hamey]

9 hours ago, lct said:

I expect mine to be rejuvenated by the forthcoming Sigma FF mirrorless body with Foveon sensor. 

Good for you LCT, I sincerely hope that Sigma Foveon sensor works well on the R lenses, as I said in my earlier post, I am sure there is a better

Alternative  for the R lenses as they surely deserve it.

Leica Camera discontinued the R system some years ago, and wants nothing to do with that system any more , no longer repair them and to make sure they got rid of the parts.

So I can never understand anybody who uses R lenses still wants to buy Leica gear, my philosophy is if you don't support me, why should I support you.

Good Luck on your choice.

 

 

 

 

 

[lct]

4 minutes ago, hamey said:

[...] if you don't support me, why should I support you

Because i love you

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[hamey]

38 minutes ago, lct said:

Because i love you

LOL.....You have to have a sense of humour nowdays.