Leica M9 Corrosion with New Sensor

[ianman]

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1 hour ago, iwctoys said:

I have never seen anything as bad as this without a major Recall off ALL Leica M9 camera.

What does that mean? I understand it as.... nope sorry, it makes no sense at all.

[iwctoys]

What this means is Leica lies as to the true reason for the fault. Just like Nikon lied about D600. This came out in the class action case against Nikon. This is all about corporate responsibility to tell people the reason behind the problem. Leica said quote sensor corrosion. Sensors DO NOT CORRODE.

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[pedaes]

7 minutes ago, ianman said:

What does that mean? I understand it as.... nope sorry, it makes no sense at all.

 think he means 'of' not 'off'  - but still makes no sense.

[ianman]

1 hour ago, iwctoys said:

This is a plain case to force Leica through a class action suit to REPLACE all Leica M9 cameras.

Nah, it's fine. They replaced if free with a free CLA for us years ago.

 

1 hour ago, iwctoys said:

The value of the M9 has fallen greatly because of the "corrosion" .

No it hasn't. In fact M9s are sought after. The recently sale of factory refurbished M9 sold like hot cakes.

Of course if someone buys one with a corroded sensor, that's another story.

[iwctoys]

I hope what I have written today helps "some people".

[ianman]

1 hour ago, iwctoys said:

Who is going to say this is not going to keep on happening on M9.

There has not been a single confirmed case of the issue with the new sensor. There has been the occasional person trying to kick up a storm but they usually go away in a puff of angry smoke as quickly as they had appeared.

1 hour ago, iwctoys said:

I have NEVER heard of one camera manufacture list sensor corrosion as a problem.

Now you have. I'm surprised you're hearing of it so late, someone with your experience, it happened a while ago now.

1 hour ago, iwctoys said:

I have seen it all.

Quite obviously, you haven't.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by ianman

[escimo]

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Am 28.7.2019 um 16:30 schrieb pedaes:

I think somewhere on the Forum there is advice on how you can interogate the camera to find which sensor by a code number. Hope someone can remember where to help you guys.

Link or some more hints to the thread? It should be easy to get the IDs out of the firmware.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/256823-m9-nach-sensortausch-plötzliches-abschalten-einschalten-nicht-mehr-möglich/?tab=comments#comment-2988868

 

Am 28.7.2019 um 15:53 schrieb ianman:

Unless they were replaced in very late 2015, they are probably not the revised sensors.

The sensor in my M9 was replaced between Aug, 25 2015 and Sep, 29 2015.

Two shoots, taken with my M9 in Jan, 2019 - repeat - 2019. Added red marker to focus on the "findings"

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Could this only be dust? - I have to take a closer look onto the sensor and after that compare the results with the shots made to proof a problem exist back in 2015,  just before the M9 was sent in to Leica CS/CC.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/230270-umfrage-wer-hat-in-seiner-m9-me-mm-oder-m240-einen-ausgetauschten-sensor/page/117/?tab=comments#comment-2882852

I'm confused about pro/contra from the statements given here about the problem was never fixed, only recessed by changing the hole unit by affected ones. I'd have to look on other shoots on the same position to decide if it's time to send it in again, after near five years in the wild.

Cheers, escimo

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by escimo

[pedaes]

8 minutes ago, escimo said:

 

Link or some more hints to the thread? It should be easy to get the IDs out of the firmware.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/256823-m9-nach-sensortausch-plötzliches-abschalten-einschalten-nicht-mehr-möglich/?tab=comments#comment-2988868

 

The sensor in my M9 was replaced between Aug, 25 2015 and Sep, 29 2015.

Two shoots, taken with my M9 in Jan, 2019 - repeat - 2019. Added red marker to focus on the "findings"

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Could this only be dust? - I have to take a closer look onto the sensor and after that compare the results with the shots made to proof a problem exist back in 2015,  just before the M9 was sent in to Leica CS/CC.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/230270-umfrage-wer-hat-in-seiner-m9-me-mm-oder-m240-einen-ausgetauschten-sensor/page/117/?tab=comments#comment-2882852

I'm confused about pro/contra from the statements given here about the problem was never fixed, only recessed by changing the hole unit by affected ones. I'd have to look on other shoots on the same position to decide if it's time to send it in again, after near five years in the wild.

Cheers, escimo

 

I would think dust. I would certainly start there.

[Ko.Fe.]

22 minutes ago, escimo said:

 

Link or some more hints to the thread? It should be easy to get the IDs out of the firmware.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/256823-m9-nach-sensortausch-plötzliches-abschalten-einschalten-nicht-mehr-möglich/?tab=comments#comment-2988868

 

The sensor in my M9 was replaced between Aug, 25 2015 and Sep, 29 2015.

Two shoots, taken with my M9 in Jan, 2019 - repeat - 2019. Added red marker to focus on the "findings"

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Could this only be dust? - I have to take a closer look onto the sensor and after that compare the results with the shots made to proof a problem exist back in 2015,  just before the M9 was sent in to Leica CS/CC.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/230270-umfrage-wer-hat-in-seiner-m9-me-mm-oder-m240-einen-ausgetauschten-sensor/page/117/?tab=comments#comment-2882852

I'm confused about pro/contra from the statements given here about the problem was never fixed, only recessed by changing the hole unit by affected ones. I'd have to look on other shoots on the same position to decide if it's time to send it in again, after near five years in the wild.

Cheers, escimo

 

Here we go again...  Have you done your search before posting? It was covered many times.

In 2015 Leica was using same "corrosive" sensors as replacement. My M-E was made in 2015, it "corroded" in 2017.

Only recently they figured out what was going on, kept free sensor change for couple of years and more recently cowardly changed it for the price of FF digital camera. 

 

I agree with repair person what Leica Camera AG needs some multi-millions dollars lesson to learn how to run customer service. 

But it is not going to happen. Leica is niche product. No any other camera makers have boutique stores. Repair person brought auto industry as example. But forgot what apples aren't oranges. If something goes wrong with Chevyota then class action might happen. It is mass products. Yet, I'm not aware of class actions against Audi which makes crappy engines for decades now. Why? Maybe because car owners don't want it. It will have less prestige after class action. It feels better to have "legendary German quality" even if Audi engines are not German made anymore.

 

[ianman]

39 minutes ago, escimo said:

Link or some more hints to the thread? It should be easy to get the IDs out of the firmware.

The link you posted displays the method albeit in German, but a search on this (M9) forum returned this. (hint: it took all of two seconds to find 🙄).

 

42 minutes ago, escimo said:

The sensor in my M9 was replaced between Aug, 25 2015 and Sep, 29 2015.

I think then, there is a high probability that you have the "old" version of the sensor, meaning they are prone to the corrosion issue.

 

43 minutes ago, escimo said:

I'm confused about pro/contra from the statements given here about the problem was never fixed

It was fixed. To my knowledge there has not been a single confirmed issue with the new sensor. As always, there will be a few people kicking up a storm, there are even some in the M10 forum ( 😂😂 ), but they usually go away after a few posts.

I agree with pedaes (aka "the guy above"), your issue looks like dust or grease mark. 

I like your second photo !!!! 

[ianman]

7 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

I agree with repair person what Leica Camera AG needs some multi-millions dollars lesson to learn how to run customer service.

In that case they probably would not have many customers or anything else left 🙄

They could and should have handled the issue better, there is no doubt. There should have been an email to each and every M9 customer making them aware of the issue and the free replacement should not have been time limited.

But, I also think customers who did not get their corroded sensors replaced within the free (did they call it goodwill?) period need to bear some responsibility. Once the sensor is corroded, it's unmistakable. Anyone would have seen that and acted. When I noticed that my own sensor had strange marks that I could not remove on, I was unaware of the problem. I was not very active on LUF at that time. But a quick and easy search led me to the information as to what was going on and how to deal with it.

[escimo]

vor einer Stunde schrieb ianman:

The link you posted displays the method albeit in German, but a search on this (M9) forum returned this. (hint: it took all of two seconds to find 🙄).

I think then, there is a high probability that you have the "old" version of the sensor, meaning they are prone to the corrosion issue.

(...)

I agree with pedaes (aka "the guy above"), your issue looks like dust or grease mark. 

I like your second photo !!!! 

The question was, starting from which serial number or range of numbers concerning the sensor unit the issue has been fixed?
What is "late 2015"? Dezember is late for me, as are Q3 as well.
 

This was the shot from 2015 before the M9 was sent in to CS/CC

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited November 23, 2019 by escimo

[jdlaing]

8 minutes ago, escimo said:

The question was, starting from which serial number or range of numbers concerning the sensor unit the issue has been fixed?
What is "late 2015"? Dezember is late for me, as are Q3 as well.
 

 

There is no serial number range. All M-9 cameras were affected. All were sold before the defect became an issue.

[escimo]

Not the serial number of the body, of course, the S/N of the sensor itself!

[Arrow]

59 minutes ago, ianman said:

In that case they probably would not have many customers or anything else left 🙄

They could and should have handled the issue better, there is no doubt. There should have been an email to each and every M9 customer making them aware of the issue and the free replacement should not have been time limited.

But, I also think customers who did not get their corroded sensors replaced within the free (did they call it goodwill?) period need to bear some responsibility. Once the sensor is corroded, it's unmistakable. Anyone would have seen that and acted. When I noticed that my own sensor had strange marks that I could not remove on, I was unaware of the problem. I was not very active on LUF at that time. But a quick and easy search led me to the information as to what was going on and how to deal with it.

I basically second your point. However, only affected sensors were eligible for the free exchange. In case a sensor started to exhibit corrosion at a later stage, you end up having a disadvantage vs. a privileged fellow owner, who bought his camera, say, the same day but was "lucky" his sensor started to disintegrate earlier. 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Arrow

[jdlaing]

13 minutes ago, escimo said:

Not the serial number of the body, of course, the S/N of the sensor itself!

I think it went by date and there is no way to get a sensor serial number. There was, if memory serves, a code in the hidden menus that had a sensor designator number that changed after the new cover glass was installed.

[ianman]

37 minutes ago, Arrow said:

I basically second your point. However, only affected sensors were eligible for the free exchange. In case a sensor started to exhibit corrosion at a later stage, you end up having a disadvantage vs. a privileged fellow owner, who bought his camera, say, the same day but was "lucky" his sensor started to disintegrate earlier. 

I agree... which I why I wrote "the free replacement should not have been time limited." 

[ianman]

29 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

I think it went by date and there is no way to get a sensor serial number. There was, if memory serves, a code in the hidden menus that had a sensor designator number that changed after the new cover glass was installed.

At some point it was possible to know because the firmware installed by Leica during the process was not available publicly. That changed when they released a  newer version which supported the 28mm Summaron IIRC.

1 hour ago, escimo said:

What is "late 2015"? Dezember is late for me, as are Q3 as well.

I can't remember exactly but I think October 2015.

Have a look at the maintenance menu (access described above) and check your sensor version number. I'll post mine (sensor replaced in 2016) to compare.

[Arrow]

On 7/30/2019 at 6:39 PM, michali said:

So, I've been in contact with Leica CS regarding the corrosion on my M9 & Monochrom sensors which were replaced in 2015. 

When I wrote to them I said that I would assume that the replaced sensors would carry a 5 year warranty from 2015.  

Here's the reply I received this morning: 

"We regret to learn that you have problems again with the sensors of both your Leica M9 and your Leica MM.

 Both cameras are older than 5 years, we charge a  contribution of €1330 + VAT for affected cameras that are older than 5 years.

The deciding factor is the age of the camera for which we allowed an additional 3 year good will period, not the age of the sensor.

 Included in this price for sensor replacement is a free general overhaul of your Leica M camera and a one year warranty

on the same terms as for new products. This offer expresses our commitment to conserving the value of the camera.

The general overhaul of the Leica M camera includes the following items:

Cleaning and overhaul of the shutter cocking mechanisms

Cleaning and maintenance/repair of the multifunction wheel

Cleaning of the main switch and shutter speed dial

Adjustment of the baseplate locking system

Refurbishment of engravings

Renewal of the protective film on the baseplate

Maintenance/repair of viewfinder displays

In addition to the chargeable repair, you have the option to take advantage of our attractive upgrade program

to a M 240, M 262 or MM 246, M10/M10-P or Leica SL incl. M-Adapter.

 Please kindly fill out the repair form and the proforma invoice and send with the goods."

Other than the corroded sensors, my cameras don't need any overhaul, that's all marketing BS.

To say that I'm pissed off is an uderstatement! Leica's attitude is unconscionable. If I decide to go the repair route I'm in for €2, 660- plus 19% = €3, 165-

If I decide to take advantage of their so-called "attractive upgrade program"  I'm still going to have to part with money. All for something that is entirely due to their faulty supply chain and manufacturing process, and no fault of this consumer who in good faith purchased 2 "high-end quality" cameras.

Selling the cameras as they are is not an option. So either way, I'm going to have to fork out more money to Leica or sit with two expensive paper weights....

OK I've had my rant.

I've now asked them to send me the options of their "attractive upgrade program". Let's see what they come up with...........

Best,

Mike

 

There is no upgrade option to an M3 mentioned.

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[ianman]

47 minutes ago, Arrow said:

There is no upgrade option to an M3 mentioned.

Should there be?