How Unique are the LHSA editions?

[setuporg]

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@dugby my very first Leica lens, bought in the end of 2016 in anticipation of the silver Leica M10, also my first Leica M, was a "standard" silver Summilux 50mm/1.4 which turned out heavy and brass-made as well.  I'm really enjoying the feeling.  So the LHSA APO feels just right vs the titanium that feels light and different.  With the push-on hood they provide very different tactile experiences, especially as the black lacquer finish is different from all other black lenses (anodyzed).  It's a new way to enjoy the same lens twice.  Also, what's interesting, is the certificate for the titanium is signed by one person and the LHSA one by another, Elena, that Thorsten Overgaard, in his video review of the black APO LHSA, calls the only woman capable of assembling the APO 50mm.

[dugby]

7 hours ago, Exodies said:

The second batch have different serial numbers. What more does a collector need?

The AMG version.......

[kengai]

can you post a picture of this lens or kindly indicate me where I can find the photos?

[dugby]

2 hours ago, kengai said:

can you post a picture of this lens or kindly indicate me where I can find the photos?

https://lhsa.org/2017/11/lhsa-50th-anniversary-special-edition-apo-summicron-m-50-f-2-asph/

https://leicarumors.com/2012/07/20/rare-leica-mp-3-lhsa-camera-kit-with-50mm-summilux-asph-lens.aspx/

https://leica-store.com.au/products/11186

https://www.leica-camera.blog/2012/07/12/carl-merkin-a-brief-history-of-lhsa-special-editions/

[pedaes]

4 hours ago, kengai said:

can you post a picture of this lens or kindly indicate me where I can find the photos?

No need to shout.

[luigi bertolotti]

I agree that a customer who has paid the premium price for an item announced as a, say, 500 pieces limited edition, has any reason to be disappointed when, for manufacturer's decision, it becomes a 1000-1500-2000 pieces edition:  given that this niche market has a certain importance for Leica, if I were them I'd take care that such a decision would be accompnied by some little variant that, not costly for them, can at least "protect the value" of the first batch declared as limited… a small difference in some engraving… even only the position of it… or the paint of some details like the scales… the risk, of course, is that the subsequent batches do not sell easily… making them as rare as the first…

Anyway… is not a new story… if I remeber correctly, the first Summilux 35 Aspherical was announced as limited edition… but then was continued, even if in no great numbers, so that its value today is anyway on the very high side.

Edited December 22, 2018 by luigi bertolotti

[derleicaman]

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Hello Everyone,

Some interesting, but incorrect views being expressed here. I am Bill Rosauer, and I have conceived and guided the past four LHSA Special Editions into production. My first Special done with Leica was the Black Paint M6TTL. Over 1,000 units were made ultimately, with standard .72 and .58 and .85 finders. Tom Abrahamsson pushed for the .85. The black paint took over four years to happen, starting from a position by Leica that "Why would anyone want black paint, our black chrome finish is superior!" Well, Tom and I finally convinced them that black paint and brassing was cool and was highly desirable and in the end it became a regular finish by Leica. We also had to convince Leica to use a brass basis for the top plate, as black paint would not work with the original zinc top plates. We went through many samples of black paint top plate, as the finish had become a lost art in Solms. Ultimately, the job of painting was subbed out to a firm in Austria.

That success led to the next Special, the Hammertone MP. That was available with a special Hammertone Leicavit and a Silver Chrome 35/2 Summicron ASPH which was a brass based lens. It also had the Hammertone lens hood. The Hammertone was limited to 1,000 units. That one took over two years to bring to fruition. I based this camera on the limited run of Hammertone M-D cameras Leica made in the early 60's. I had one pass through my hands years before and was very taken with the Hammertone finish. This was another tough finish to get right.

Next up was the LHSA MP3. My concept was to make a camera as close to the original MP as possible. My thinking was that the original MP was one of the most collectible Leicas ever made, which most people would never be able to acquire and use. I pushed Leica hard on this one, and they came through with everything I asked for. M2 type frame counter, limited frame lines to 35, 50 and 90. Black paint and chrome finish. Dog ear lugs (which were the hardest thing to do for Leica!), the Leicavit and the piece-de-resistance, the 50 Summilux ASPH in the classic style of the original. This was modeled after my own silver chrome 50 Summilux in my collection. I got a lot of push back from Leica on this as the 50 Summilux ASPH was a new lens at the time and they did not want to divert production into a special edition. But, in the end, they relented and the result is a masterpiece IMO. BTW, the name MP3 came after a discussion with Stefan Daniel, when he asked what we should call this camera. My answer was it should be different from MP,  that there was an MP2 produced in limited numbers in the past, so lets use MP3! There were 500 units each of chrome and black paint finish of the camera, lens and Leicavit. This camera and lens were done in record time of about a year. Leica was in dire need of a revenue maker at the time, so the MP3 was given very high priority.

The current LHSA 50 Summicron APO lens took over a year of work to make happen. My original concept also included a camera, but the introduction of the M10 killed that one off. We continued with the lens. Again, the concept of the lens was based on a late production 50/2 Rigid Summicron in my collection. We went through different concepts, including lenses with built-in lens hoods. Here are some renderings submitted to me during the design process. The chrome lens shown is what we finalized on. The two black renderings, showing front and back views were rejected by me. The focus ring was too skinny, as I preferred the wide focus ring of the later lenses. I also rejected the built-in hood as it was not present on the original lens. This took more than one year to get into production. Believe me, it is not an easy process, but it is very rewarding seeing your vision come to fruition. Many thanks to the team at Leica for making this happen! 300 black paint and 200 silver chrome lenses were produced.

After the limited number of each special edition, Leica is free to make other versions and finishes of the LHSA specials. A good example is the 50 Summilux, as that one was done in a number of other versions for other special editions, most recently the black chrome. Ironically, when discussions began on the 50th Anniversary for the LHSA, I was specifically told we could not use the 50 Summilux ASPH! I told the person I was working with that this was quite ironic, as I was the one who conceived this lens!

Stay tuned for future developments!

 

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[setuporg]

@derleicaman, what a pleasure to hear about the LHSA lens history from the source!  Thank you for the stellar work.  The black lacquer APO Summicron is out of this world.  The push-on hood is hefty and feels protective enough, I fully intend to use mine, although I also have the titanium version (from the 333 sets) complementing my M60 nicely.  That one is lighter and can allow for a different tactile experience.  The knurled focus ring also gives a different focusing experience than the tab.  It's like you can enjoy the lens twice. 

How definitively do you think Leica will not copy that design for its own editions?  E.g. could they do a black chrome version down the road?  Looks like silver chrome then will be much more similar to that than the black lacquer one, which is truly unique.  I started with all-chrome lenses to complement my silver M10 but some Leica lenses are only available in black and I got to appreciate that finish, of which the APO is the ultimate incarnation.  Thank you again for the beautiful materialization of a classical ideal!

Edited December 23, 2018 by setuporg

[Steve Ash]

I am really happy that I took the decision to buy the silver Lhsa apo 50 lens. The only think I do not like about it is the hood which cannot be fixed in its position but easily rotates in use. 

Regards

Steve

[setuporg]

11 hours ago, Steve Ash said:

I am really happy that I took the decision to buy the silver Lhsa apo 50 lens. The only think I do not like about it is the hood which cannot be fixed in its position but easily rotates in use. 

Steve -- I wonder if it rotates if you try to rotate it.:) . I've put mine on and it stays in place.  It probably would rotate if you did it a few times and it developed the grooves for it to rotate.  If you just put it on and take off it should not, at least on the black version where it sticks into the paint.

[Steve Ash]

38 minutes ago, setuporg said:

Steve -- I wonder if it rotates if you try to rotate it.:) . I've put mine on and it stays in place.  It probably would rotate if you did it a few times and it developed the grooves for it to rotate.  If you just put it on and take off it should not, at least on the black version where it sticks into the paint.

there are other hoods like the special edition for the summicron 28 (12466 )which is much better. I wish they had copied the locking of it.

[tom0511]

I really like the LHSA design (specially the focus wheel) but I am not a fan of all those special edition limited edition things Leica makes.

The worst thing (IMO) is presenting limited edition digital cameras at the end of the product cycle. People buy it and believe to have something special and 3 months later the new generation is presented.

 

[derleicaman]

My design brief for the hood was for a 12585 style hood

the hood finally produced was solid machined brass, a bit heavier than the 12585. It was always intended to be a clip on hood

[pico]

We can see that commemorative lenses are a decorative embellishment having nothing to do with how it performs. Love it or not on such grounds.  It is obviously a collectors territory.

Edited December 23, 2018 by pico

[skater75]

On 12/22/2018 at 12:34 AM, kengai said:

can you post a picture of this lens or kindly indicate me where I can find the photos?

Silver LHSA 59 mm APO on monochrome M246:

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[setuporg]

4 hours ago, pico said:

We can see that commemorative lenses are a decorative embellishment having nothing to do with how it performs. Love it or not on such grounds.  It is obviously a collectors territory.

In fact, the way it handles informs your shooting, so the overall package of you and the lens and you knowing the lens performs differently.  The lens without a tab that is heavier and especially with the hood feels different than the one that is light and shorter and somehow I end up focusing differently with the LHSA version than the standard one where I might go one-handed and nudge the tab with the pinky.  The overall result on the street will be different.  It is subjective as all photography.

[setuporg]

5 hours ago, tom0511 said:

I really like the LHSA design (specially the focus wheel) but I am not a fan of all those special edition limited edition things Leica makes.

The worst thing (IMO) is presenting limited edition digital cameras at the end of the product cycle. People buy it and believe to have something special and 3 months later the new generation is presented.

 

Unless it is truly special like the M60 that started the whole screenless revolution and works just fine.:)

[Steve Ash]

8 hours ago, pico said:

We can see that commemorative lenses are a decorative embellishment having nothing to do with how it performs. Love it or not on such grounds.  It is obviously a collectors territory.

Well Pico, I think your view is to negative. As I said above I am very happy about the lens overall and as you can see from my comment the lens is in use and no decorative item at all. Yes, it offers a special design (look of an old lens) which I regard as a special gift to the users with deep emotional relation to the brand or the Leica M system as you like. Further I got a much better focus ring for actual use. Regarding the price, it was only slightly above an already hefty price with a potential to gain in future resale value. So in a way it does not matter if you can afford in the first place. 

[chasdfg]

1 hour ago, Steve Ash said:

Well Pico, I think your view is to negative. As I said above I am very happy about the lens overall and as you can see from my comment the lens is in use and no decorative item at all. Yes, it offers a special design (look of an old lens) which I regard as a special gift to the users with deep emotional relation to the brand or the Leica M system as you like. Further I got a much better focus ring for actual use. Regarding the price, it was only slightly above an already hefty price with a potential to gain in future resale value. So in a way it does not matter if you can afford in the first place. 

Some people buy these special edition lenses without thinking twice because they can afford it. Some people buy these lenses because, as Setuporg mentioned, it may suit their shooting style. It's merely an extension of the question "why do you shoot Leica, when there are so many other cameras around which may do more?". The answer to which for me is because I can afford it,  I enjoy it, it fits how I prefer to shoot (and nothing comes close to the experience I have shooting with Leica), and yes because I am now emotionally attached to the brand and, silly romantic idea or not, each Leica camera or lens I own is a tie to the rich history of the company and the great photographers that have shot with Leica. If I'm completely honest, there's a slight snob factor involved and some bragging rights. Same goes for why people buy special editions.

Yet I do agree with Pico. I understand why these limited edition copies are offered for sale. They're custom made, allow for experimentation and generate revenue for Leica. But once "limited edition" is mentioned in the same breath as "Leica" you can be assured that the bulk of the copies offered for sale will be stored away, and that is the greatest shame. Undeniably they are priced for collectors and made in quantities for collectors. I know several people who would love to own one of these LHSA editions but are priced out (or if not priced out, cannot find stock of the limited edition lens or camera), myself included. It has nothing to do with limited edition or not. Both black anodised in a modern shell and the black lacquer LHSA 50APOs could be standard editions in an alternate reality and I'd still pick the lacquer (latter).

Ultimately, it boils down to whatever makes one happy. Life it too short anyway. I could be commuting and look down at the brassed up M240 I'm carrying and smile to myself that I own a Leica. After several years of ownership, I can still stare at the camera for hours - to me that is one of the small, simple things. I might smile a little bit more if a black lacquer 50APO was mounted though.

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@derleicaman - Bill, that is some fascinating insight into the process of designing these limited edition lenses. Was a lovely read.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[skater75]

15 hours ago, pico said:

We can see that commemorative lenses are a decorative embellishment having nothing to do with how it performs. Love it or not on such grounds.  It is obviously a collectors territory.

This comes down to  emotional attachment to the brand, to the art of craftsmanship. If you carry a piece of art in your photo bag it sets up a higher standard for your photos. It drives you to go out for another extra couple hours and shoot. It motivates. Works for me. I do not stash away mine into a corner of a dry cabinet. I go out and take pictures.

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