Chaemono Posted October 8, 2018 Share #61 Posted October 8, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Actually, I just held the SL and the α7R III and I'd have to agree, my left hand goes below the lens barrel. Nikon put some thought into designing it with no left side grip. Depending on the size of one's hands, mine are more on the smaller side, and how one is used to holding a camera, the Nikon might be more comfortable this way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 Hi Chaemono, Take a look here Leica SL2- ? L Alliance. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted October 8, 2018 Share #62 Posted October 8, 2018 Have you actually reviewed the camera? Just comparing your comparison, which is quite comparable 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
howiebrou Posted October 8, 2018 Share #63 Posted October 8, 2018 Have you actually reviewed the camera? I have tried the Z7 and it‘s quite comfortable and feels lighter and smaller than the SL. I’m not sure what prolongued use would feel like though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 9, 2018 Share #64 Posted October 9, 2018 13 hours ago, howiebrou said: I have tried the Z7 and it‘s quite comfortable and feels lighter and smaller than the SL. I’m not sure what prolongued use would feel like though. Are you referring to Z7 or SL601? Size or weight of a camera is not and issue but the size/weight of lens and photo bag with other lenses one carry’s around. If I use my SL with with one moderately sized M prime on the camera and maybe extra two M lenses in a bag it is always comfortable. I suspect other cameras with similar lenses would be similar. I still have to see one in a flesh but looking at pictures and reading other peoples reviews Z7 is really small. Even the latest 500mm f5.6 Fresnel lens is tiny and feather weight. Everybody seem to be happy how it handles, to make it balanced some Leica grandees are not 🎩 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
howiebrou Posted October 9, 2018 Share #65 Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, mmradman said: Are you referring to Z7 or SL601? Size or weight of a camera is not and issue but the size/weight of lens and photo bag with other lenses one carry’s around. If I use my SL with with one moderately sized M prime on the camera and maybe extra two M lenses in a bag it is always comfortable. I suspect other cameras with similar lenses would be similar. I still have to see one in a flesh but looking at pictures and reading other peoples reviews Z7 is really small. Even the latest 500mm f5.6 Fresnel lens is tiny and feather weight. Everybody seem to be happy how it handles, to make it balanced some Leica grandees are not 🎩 I am talking about the Z7. I handled one about 2 weeks ago. I can't remember which lens was on it but it felt just like a small DSLR from my old days, quite chunky but rounded and easy to hold in one hand. i had the SL and the Z7 next to each other and the SL felt a lot larger, perhaps it is the sharp edges. Anyway i went home with a new SL....:)) Edited October 9, 2018 by howiebrou Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
howiebrou Posted October 9, 2018 Share #66 Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, mmradman said: If I use my SL with with one moderately sized M prime on the camera and maybe extra two M lenses in a bag it is always comfortable. I agree but that is not comparable to what most Z7 owners would be carrying. You really need to compare AF lenses on the SL with AF lenses on the Z7. I really like my M lenses on my SL, even more perhaps than the M. Edited October 9, 2018 by howiebrou Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 9, 2018 Share #67 Posted October 9, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) 31 minutes ago, howiebrou said: I agree but that is not comparable to what most Z7 owners would be carrying. You really need to compare AF lenses on the SL with AF lenses on the Z7. I really like my M lenses on my SL, even more perhaps than the M. We live in good times. At the moment my head & heart are happy with Leica SL601 (supplemented with M246) and clutch of M& R lenses but if in the future I desire more megapixels and Z line performs well with 3rd party adopted lenses, like R and M. Some of my prized M lenses are already apparently good performers on Sony Alpha full frame and according to Kolari Z7 stripdown cover glass is half a thickness of Sony, I may decide to choose Z system camera instead of L. I will definitely sit on the fence until either Sigma brings to market full frame Foveon or i decide i need AF lens, than Nikkor is top contender. https://kolarivision.com/nikon-z7-dissasembly-teardown/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
howiebrou Posted October 9, 2018 Share #68 Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, mmradman said: We live in good times. At the moment my head & heart are happy with Leica SL601 (supplemented with M246) and clutch of M& R lenses but if in the future I desire more megapixels and Z line performs well with 3rd party adopted lenses, like R and M. Some of my prized M lenses are already apparently good performers on Sony Alpha full frame and according to Kolari Z7 stripdown cover glass is half a thickness of Sony, I may decide to choose Z system camera instead of L. I will definitely sit on the fence until either Sigma brings to market full frame Foveon or i decide i need AF lens, than Nikkor is top contender. https://kolarivision.com/nikon-z7-dissasembly-teardown/ No Panasonic S1R to contemplate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 9, 2018 Share #69 Posted October 9, 2018 vor einer Stunde schrieb mmradman: We live in good times. At the moment my head & heart are happy with Leica SL601 (supplemented with M246) and clutch of M& R lenses but if in the future I desire more megapixels and Z line performs well with 3rd party adopted lenses, like R and M. Some of my prized M lenses are already apparently good performers on Sony Alpha full frame and according to Kolari Z7 stripdown cover glass is half a thickness of Sony, I may decide to choose Z system camera instead of L. I will definitely sit on the fence until either Sigma brings to market full frame Foveon or i decide i need AF lens, than Nikkor is top contender. https://kolarivision.com/nikon-z7-dissasembly-teardown/ Half as thick means half as bad. Their ultra-thin conversion is down to 0.2mm. 1.1mm is still not good enough for M lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 9, 2018 Share #70 Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, howiebrou said: No Panasonic S1R to contemplate? I have few thoughts on the subject... Both Panasonic S1R and Sigma Foveon are just development announcements. Medium format S3 is expected sometime next year, only than Leica's own SL mk2 can follow if more than 37Mp is the aim. Till than other mirrorless are real and available in a shop today, you may have to wait a bit due to initial & usual surge in demand. If you pre-ordered you would have one in your hands now. L-Alliance can go from strength to strength or hit the bucket few months down the line, we will see. Hopefully we see camera evolution working for the L-Team. At Photokina last month Panasonic managed for all intense and purposes no more than a dummy S1R, memory card door was superglued. Blogging is big business, new dedicated rumour site is updated almost daily, there is plenty of hype going on, new videos emerging from the Photokina constantly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 9, 2018 Share #71 Posted October 9, 2018 54 minutes ago, Chaemono said: Half as thick means half as bad. Their ultra-thin conversion is down to 0.2mm. 1.1mm is still not good enough for M lenses. Of course, but not all M lenses are the same, lack of dedicated microlenses over the sensor affects mostly older non-telecentric M mount lenses. Plenty of telecentric glass in my camera bag 😉 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
profus Posted October 10, 2018 Share #72 Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) On 10/3/2018 at 12:05 AM, jonoslack said: I agree with you about LENR and will certainly talk about it with them, but “doing as the customer asks” I don’t think so! 1 1 A bit off-topic: Any chance you could talk to them and ask them about finally implementing a possibility to make a camera "remember" magnified part of an image between two shots when focusing using M-lenses? Not to be forced to get middle of frame magnified with every new shot you take... If I remember correctly you mentioned that "they were working on that..." already when implementing one of the first fw updates, but that never actually happened... Tnx Edited October 10, 2018 by profus 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted October 10, 2018 Share #73 Posted October 10, 2018 4 hours ago, profus said: A bit off-topic: Any chance you could talk to them and ask them about finally implementing a possibility to make a camera "remember" magnified part of an image between two shots when focusing using M-lenses? Not to be forced to get middle of frame magnified with every new shot you take... If I remember correctly you mentioned that "they were working on that..." already when implementing one of the first fw updates, but that never actually happened... Tnx Grrrrrrrrr. Somebody persuaded somebody else that the current 'back to centre) was correct behaviour (which it clearly isn't) - even to the extent that whereas one could use spot metering and it would zoom in where you were . . . they took that away as well!. I'd like to assure you that I've mentioned this lots of times - I think the SL / CL should behave the same way as the M with an EVF - ie have a cross hair which you can move around which represents the 'zoom in' point. I'm still on the case, and I think I'm getting somewhere . . . . . but I guess it won't be that soon. best 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 10, 2018 Share #74 Posted October 10, 2018 This guy does a very thorough job testing the AF of the Nikon Z7 in action. I think, non-native lenses is the issue, as he states it could be. Who cares if these cameras aren't meant for sports, people will test the FF Panasonics' AF tracking in action. AI DFD CDAF vs. PDAF, Panasonic's AF system acronym does sport more letters but it needs to be as good as the Nikons'. Sony at least with the α9 seems to be leading in mirrorless AF systems for fast action. The FF Panasonics need to do better than the Lumix G9 AF tracking here. But with objects running towards the camera, the AF tracking of Lumix G9 seem to do really well. So, it could be good enough for dog shots. Let's hope that AF will work as well in FF as in μFT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
profus Posted October 11, 2018 Share #75 Posted October 11, 2018 23 hours ago, jonoslack said: Grrrrrrrrr. Somebody persuaded somebody else that the current 'back to centre) was correct behaviour (which it clearly isn't) - even to the extent that whereas one could use spot metering and it would zoom in where you were . . . they took that away as well!. I'd like to assure you that I've mentioned this lots of times - I think the SL / CL should behave the same way as the M with an EVF - ie have a cross hair which you can move around which represents the 'zoom in' point. I'm still on the case, and I think I'm getting somewhere . . . . . but I guess it won't be that soon. best Thank you. I really hope you'll find a way to make them see the light! I am really puzzled how somebody could think present behaviour is as it should be... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Andersson Posted October 11, 2018 Share #76 Posted October 11, 2018 Hi folks, The L-alliance made me look afresh at the SL and I realised that with the APO-Summicron-SL 75 f/2 ASPH and Super-Vario-Elmar-SL 16–35 f/3.5–4.5 ASPH glass I might be a customer so I got down to my local Leica store for a fondle. I love the unfussy ergonomics of the SL, in stark contrast to what I've seen of the S1/S1R, but this late into the product cycle I can wait for the update that Dr. Kaufmann has already mentioned, even if I have to wait a year! I suspect it will come quicker than that but in any event it'll give me time to save my pennies. Personally 24 MP is enough for my needs so I'm hoping that a refresh just concentrates on keeping all that's great about the SL while taking advantage of whatever advances in sensor and memory card design allow coupled with the Maestro III but that's for the unknown, to anyone outside Leica, future. My worry is that possible demand for Leica glass from future S1R owners might translate into availability issues! Bob. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 11, 2018 Share #77 Posted October 11, 2018 vor einer Stunde schrieb Bob Andersson: Hi folks, The L-alliance made me look afresh at the SL and I realised that with the APO-Summicron-SL 75 f/2 ASPH and Super-Vario-Elmar-SL 16–35 f/3.5–4.5 ASPH glass I might be a customer so I got down to my local Leica store for a fondle. I love the unfussy ergonomics of the SL, in stark contrast to what I've seen of the S1/S1R, but this late into the product cycle I can wait for the update that Dr. Kaufmann has already mentioned, even if I have to wait a year! I suspect it will come quicker than that but in any event it'll give me time to save my pennies. Personally 24 MP is enough for my needs so I'm hoping that a refresh just concentrates on keeping all that's great about the SL while taking advantage of whatever advances in sensor and memory card design allow coupled with the Maestro III but that's for the unknown, to anyone outside Leica, future. My worry is that possible demand for Leica glass from future S1R owners might translate into availability issues! Bob. May for the SL, Bob. That’s when Photokina 2019 will take place and no need for Leica to delay the SL2 for longer given so much shared technology with the Panasonics that will be out by then. May 2019 is the word on the street. And I would get those two lenses you desire now. It’s stupid when one doesn’t have a camera to use them but they will be more expensive next year and who knows about availability. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted October 11, 2018 Share #78 Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Chaemono said: May for the SL, Bob. That’s when Photokina 2019 will take place and no need for Leica to delay the SL2 for longer given so much shared technology with the Panasonics that will be out by then. May 2019 is the word on the street. And I would get those two lenses you desire now. It’s stupid when one doesn’t have a camera to use them but they will be more expensive next year and who knows about availability. +1 about the lenses. They may show a mock-up of the SL2 at the May Photokina. But if they don't give some guidance about it before Panasonic starts shipping their cameras ("early" 2019), they may lose a lot of customers. I'm betting on at least a modest increase in MPS for the SL2, otherwise the larger, but lower cost Panasonic would tempt many. Edited October 11, 2018 by bags27 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Andersson Posted October 11, 2018 Share #79 Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) Hi Chaemono, Hi bags27, Thank you both. I'd also heard the rumour of the May Photokina and yes, I think it's very likely I'll be ordering the 16-35mm early, pennies permitting. Probably in the New Year although I'm not entirely comfortable about doing so. Too many echoes of empty supermarket shelves and panic buying! 🤔 Bob. Edited October 11, 2018 by Bob Andersson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 11, 2018 Share #80 Posted October 11, 2018 Yes, and the Fed ‘is going loco’ with interest rates. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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