Leica S3 announced @ photokina

[ZHNL]

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Someone pointed out that the S 007 was announced at $25400 but released at $16900. So it seems probable that the S3 will end up selling officially for around $20k, and unofficially (as so-called "open box" items or otherwise) for less. Still, the high MSRPs prop up a whole system of exorbitant repairs and upgrades. Their U-turn on corroded sensor and AF motor repairs, and the opaque 5-year-from-manufacture limit, is alarming. A recent post here cited a Leica customer rep saying EUR 450 for the AF motor repair was "below cost" for Leica, so they had to charge EUR 650 instead. Leica bills like a corporate lawyer--for a design flaw that shouldn't have been in the first place.

 

ZHNL's S 006 had a corroded sensor. He was recently asked by Leica to choose between upgrading to the S 007 or paying for the S006's repair more than what a certified used 006 body costs. He wrote a sad post about this, so I imagine it must be funny for him to be told "if you like to be milked by Leica..."

 

It's curious how this forum is populated by disillusioned S users who return to express their love-hate for the system (myself increasingly among them). My problem with Leica isn't the luxury premium per se. It's what seems to be cynical abuse of the aforesaid loyalty. 

Well said. I agree. I even mentioned will join a class action for what happened if there is one.  

I won't deny I like Leica product and consider I am quite loyal to them but at the same time I am objective on gear with open mind to see different perspective. I used gears range from Nikon F and Z, Leica S and M, Sony.(not anymore) if I decide to keep the system, there is must be a good reason for it. The same with S. 

[kparseg]

Alan, I'm happy you keep close attention to other members' personal issues with Leica. I don't and I don't find anything funny in what I've said.

[ZHNL]

Dear Admin, I noticed my post got deleted. Is there anything I said out of line? 

[Neimad]

Someone pointed out that the S 007 was announced at $25400 but released at $16900. So it seems probable that the S3 will end up selling officially for around $20k, and unofficially (as so-called "open box" items or otherwise) for less. Still, the high MSRPs prop up a whole system of exorbitant repairs and upgrades. Their U-turn on corroded sensor and AF motor repairs, and the opaque 5-year-from-manufacture limit, is alarming. A recent post here cited a Leica customer rep saying EUR 450 for the AF motor repair was "below cost" for Leica, so they had to charge EUR 650 instead. Leica bills like a corporate lawyer--for a design flaw that shouldn't have been in the first place.

 

ZHNL's S 006 had a corroded sensor. He was recently asked by Leica to choose between upgrading to the S 007 or paying for the S006's repair more than what a certified used 006 body costs. He wrote a sad post about this, so I imagine it must be funny for him to be told "if you like to be milked by Leica..."

 

It's curious how this forum is populated by disillusioned S users who return to express their love-hate for the system (myself increasingly among them). My problem with Leica isn't the luxury premium per se. It's what seems to be cynical abuse of the aforesaid loyalty. 

 

 

Same frustration here. My S2 body has a corroded sensor.

It's very frustrating to have a high end camera that is just a brick after 6 years of use.

Leica NJ is actually asking me to pay $8,000 to get a refurbished S007. 

 

Such a trade would have been OK few years ago but the market is very different now.

There are a lot of good options for a $8,000 medium format camera. In fact, this trade doesn't create any incentive to stay with the S system.

 

I'm actually looking for the Sigma L body with Full Frame Foveon sensor. It will be probably the best way to continue to use my S 35, 70 and 120mm lenses while I transitioning to another system. This will be a very different setup from the S2 but it will probably deliver a better result for my needs (High resolution for static subjects)

 

In the meantime I can continue to use my second S2P body (as long as it's not affected by the corrosion defect)

Leica just lost a customer of their S system.

[AlanD]

That’s what I am saying. Raise the price on lenses and drop the price of S bodies and you will get happy customers. Transition S lenses to faster AF gears (linear

motors like the SL).

[ynp]

 

I'm actually looking for the Sigma L body with Full Frame Foveon sensor. It will be probably the best way to continue to use my S 35, 70 and 120mm lenses while I transitioning to another system. This will be a very different setup from the S2 but it will probably deliver a better result for my needs (High resolution for static subjects)

 

In the meantime I can continue to use my second S2P body (as long as it's not affected by the corrosion defect)

Leica just lost a customer of their S system.

There’s no guarantee that the future Sigma ( or Panasonic) camera will allow the use of the S-L adapters. The Leica CL doesn’t and it’s an L-Mount camera.

[helged]

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There’s no guarantee that the future Sigma ( or Panasonic) camera will allow the use of the S-L adapters. The Leica CL doesn’t and it’s an L-Mount camera.

 

 

Could be that the smallish CL-body isn't sufficiently strongly built to hold the relatively heavy S-lenses? No problem to use the S-lenses on the SL (altough I, generally, prefer to use the SL-lenses on the SL, with the 120mm S as an exception).

Edited October 2, 2018 by helged

[ynp]

Could be that the smallish CL-body isn't sufficiently strongly built to hold the relatively heavy S-lenses.

I don’t know. The CL works very good with the longer SL Zoom, you just hold the lens, not the camera.

[Neimad]

That’s what I am saying. Raise the price on lenses and drop the price of S bodies and you will get happy customers. Transition S lenses to faster AF gears (linear

motors like the SL).

 

 

Very Good point here.

[helged]

Report from David Farkas at the Red Dot Forum: https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/09/photokina-2018-the-leica-s3/

[AlanD]

“Also, we implemented a new color filter array, which is going to offer really amazing color. We will tune the output for skin tone, but it will work extremely well for a wide variety of applications like landscape, architecture, fine art, etc. You’ll especially see an improvement in the red channel, which has always been challenging for digital photographers when photographing bright reds, like automotive paint, or flowers in the sun.”

 

This is the best news. They had the same language with the M9

[helged]

Agree. I wonder whether the controlled (low) heating of the sensor implies that LENR can be turned off.

 

"We really worked on making the sensor very power efficient with extremely low heat output. By running the sensor cooler, this gives the user better battery life, but also delivers the best image quality. You don’t want a hot sensor. Not for video, and not for absolute best image quality."

[albertknappmd]

see David Farkas' blog...   

 

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/09/photokina-2018-the-leica-s3/

 

Albert     

[PBart]

I look forward to testing the S3. I'm mostly looking at the dynamic range since the 007 has been very good and I love that camera. I've been using the S-System for 6 years and it my primary camera for commercial photography. I admit I had a rough start with the 006 camera but Leica seems to work the flaws out as the system evolves. I wonder if Leica has any plans for new lenses? Still crossing my fingers for the 30mm perspective control lens but hear it's not happening. It should, it would attract a lot of photographers.

[BernardC]

That’s what I am saying. Raise the price on lenses and drop the price of S bodies and you will get happy customers. Transition S lenses to faster AF gears (linear

motors like the SL).

 

Let's hope not. I would much rather have a "slow" direct focus than a fly-by-wire focus. I can understand why they would do that on the SL, where speed is key to competitiveness. The S is a medium format camera, I would rather have better control and precision than speed.

[stevieg]

That’s what I am saying. Raise the price on lenses and drop the price of S bodies and you will get happy customers. Transition S lenses to faster AF gears (linear

motors like the SL).

 

 

Very Good point here.

 

...and following on from that general sentiment; I find it interesting that there seems to be a general deafening silence of existing S users on this Leica-enthusiast forum, saying that they are rushing out to get an S3 body upgrade. Have Leica pushed it too far re: price/performance/specs ?

[John McMaster]

It looks to be a higher resolution S(007), if you do not need the extra pixels then why bother?  I see that there is no sensor upgrade to the 007, will see if the picture quality of the S3 is even higher....

 

john

[Jeff S]

It looks to be a higher resolution S(007), if you do not need the extra pixels then why bother? I see that there is no sensor upgrade to the 007, will see if the picture quality of the S3 is even higher....

 

john

New CMOS chip, color array, etc.... see Farkas blog linked above (twice).

 

Jeff

[kparseg]

New CMOS chip, color array, etc.... see Farkas blog linked above (twice).

 

Jeff

There are few points regarding his interview which I liked and didn't like. What I liked is that he considered a mirrorless camera as a possibility and also quite impressive maximum ISO upgrade. But I didn't like that the camera has the same buffer (granted, it isn't a sports camera) and still one focus point (?). Not sure about new color array, the current one seems to satisfy all Leica users.

 

I'm curious if Leica can update the CS lenses to provide a faster shutter speed, like Hasselblad did with its HC orange dot lenses? Is it even possible? And please Leica, make a 100CS version!!!

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[AlanD]

Let's hope not. I would much rather have a "slow" direct focus than a fly-by-wire focus. I can understand why they would do that on the SL, where speed is key to competitiveness. The S is a medium format camera, I would rather have better control and precision than speed.

Good point. I agree. I think I was imagining Canon USM with mechanical clutch for manual focus but also with “faster” AF. It does not need to be the speed of the SL or Canon/Nikon (where focus throw is limited) but a silent ultrasonic motor (relative to the current motor) would be great.