New Panasonic Full Frame with SL Mount?

[thighslapper]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

A lot of muddled thinking here (mine probably included) ....... if you are in the market for Leica optics then you clearly have the financial capability to buy an SL body... so why not, as it is designed with the lenses in mind after all. 

 

If you are not constrained by cash .... and in this part of the market you need rather deep pockets ...... then the tendency is to buy 'the best' or what you feel most comfortable with using..... or your preferred 'brand'. 

 

A Gucci handbag and a Tesco shopping bag are functionally similar .... but that doesn't stop queues outside their outlet store in Bicester or Selfridges in London willing to spend thousands on a label.

 

Leica is a premium/luxury brand and will always maintain sales as long as specs are not too far adrift of the mainstream....... even though a percentage exhibit brand infidelity and will drop in and out depending on what takes their fancy. 

 

Leica is built around an iconic brand, matchless quality, simplicity and exclusivity ....... the normal laws of photographic marketing do not necessarily apply .... 

Edited September 25, 2018 by thighslapper

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[mmradman]

In the past Leica camera was best fit for Leica optics, I started with Leitax conversion of R lenses and gradually migrated to M and later SL camera platforms. So if today we can get compatible third party camera what is wrong with that if it meets expectations and saves money, can always use saving to buy more lenses or holidays or wine or what ever your drug is.

[sblitz]

My guess is the SL2 vs Panasonic debate will take the form of the D-lux 109 vs Panasonic equivalent -- same camera different bodies and menu interface. Then the difference was a few $100s, now it could be $1000 or more, that's a distinctive difference where I come from and IF the IQ is the same but the exterior packaging is different, I will swallow my pride and save the money to spend on lenses!

[mmradman]

For me one big question remain and Panasonic will sooner or later make the announcement - what is the raw format, DNG or Panasonic’s own?

[Chaemono]

That’s also why it probably made economic sense for Leica to do the alliance, Leica will sell more lenses, fewer bodies. Margins are better on the lenses, I suspect, as no third party technology license fees are involved which can be horrendous as a percentage of sales. So, financially the deal is accretive.

[Martin B]

A lot of muddled thinking here (mine probably included) ....... if you are in the market for Leica optics then you clearly have the financial capability to buy an SL body... so why not, as it is designed with the lenses in mind after all. 

 

If you are not constrained by cash .... and in this part of the market you need rather deep pockets ...... then the tendency is to buy 'the best' or what you feel most comfortable with using..... or your preferred 'brand'. 

 

A Gucci handbag and a Tesco shopping bag are functionally similar .... but that doesn't stop queues outside their outlet store in Bicester or Selfridges in London willing to spend thousands on a label.

 

Leica is a premium/luxury brand and will always maintain sales as long as specs are not too far adrift of the mainstream....... even though a percentage exhibit brand infidelity and will drop in and out depending on what takes their fancy. 

 

Leica is built around an iconic brand, matchless quality, simplicity and exclusivity ....... the normal laws of photographic marketing do not necessarily apply .... 

 

I am aware that this is a Leica forum which attracts lost of pure Leica fans - but this is only a small part of the real world out there. In non-brand oriented photo forums people already start raving and applauding the new Panasonic FF MLC cameras as being the best options to adapt high quality Leica glass. This crowd of people - me included - is seemingly much larger than what many posts here imply. I believe the first time that Leica did a very smart move with this alliance for digital MLC, and I applaud Leica for this move. It will upset some collectors and might disappoint some users of Leica SL cameras who saw this also as a good investment which it might be no longer to the expected amount or resale value. I am also convinced that many who have the money which they could spend rather go for the cheaper option, too. But I agree that Leica will remain a luxury brand name - which might play an even bigger role in the future for pure collectors of Leica gear (for example the M camera series just to name one). Not sure if all kind of currently digital Leica cameras will survive like T, Q, X, SL etc. Time will tell. Great time for photographers - lots of great gear to choose from. MLC certainly has broken up the brand-centered former environment of gear for photographers. 

[Martin B]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

That’s also why it probably made economic sense for Leica to do the alliance, Leica will sell more lenses, fewer bodies. Margins are better on the lenses, I suspect, as no third party technology license fees are involved which can be horrendous as a percentage of sales. So, financially the deal is accretive.

 

Exactly, that's what I also believe!

[jaapv]

This is what I don’t understand about the Sigma+Leica+Panasonic L mount sharing arrangement. While I love my SL, and would buy it again, many (most?) in the camera market are spec readers (see Martin - not much will induce them to buy an expensive Leica with too few mega-pickles and last year’s technology, no matter how good the product is in reality. They’re too busy examining their images at 200% for detail and sharpness to stand back and admire the whole picture.

 

I hope Leica makes money from each Panasonic and Sigma lens and camera sold using the L mount under the licensing agreement.

Because a camera is more than the sum of the parts. Much as I dislike car analogies, the Jaguar X-type was based on the Ford Mondeo, yet it was a "real" Jaguar and the best selling one ever too. Additionally, I suspect that Leica's margin on lenses is much higher than on cameras. Who cares if they sell a few bodies less if lens sales increase substantially?

I even doubt whether that will happen, some Panasonic customers will want to move up. And Panaleicas sell well.

[dkCambridgeshire]

I am aware that this is a Leica forum which attracts lost of pure Leica fans - but this is only a small part of the real world out there. In non-brand oriented photo forums people already start raving and applauding the new Panasonic FF MLC cameras as being the best options to adapt high quality Leica glass. This crowd of people - me included - is seemingly much larger than what many posts here imply. I believe the first time that Leica did a very smart move with this alliance for digital MLC, and I applaud Leica for this move. It will upset some collectors and might disappoint some users of Leica SL cameras who saw this also as a good investment which it might be no longer to the expected amount or resale value. I am also convinced that many who have the money which they could spend rather go for the cheaper option, too. But I agree that Leica will remain a luxury brand name - which might play an even bigger role in the future for pure collectors of Leica gear (for example the M camera series just to name one). Not sure if all kind of currently digital Leica cameras will survive like T, Q, X, SL etc. Time will tell. Great time for photographers - lots of great gear to choose from. MLC certainly has broken up the brand-centered former environment of gear for photographers. 

 

 

The SL is almost 3 years old young and will likely be superseded by the SL2 in 2019 … when the new Panasonic and Sigma FF cameras will likely not match whatever the SL2 has up its sleeve.

 

dunk                                                                 

[bags27]

My guess is the SL2 vs Panasonic debate will take the form of the D-lux 109 vs Panasonic equivalent -- same camera different bodies and menu interface. Then the difference was a few $100s, now it could be $1000 or more, that's a distinctive difference where I come from and IF the IQ is the same but the exterior packaging is different, I will swallow my pride and save the money to spend on lenses!

But as Jono corrected me several pages ago, it's not that the cameras are virtually the same except perhaps for some color rendition differences and the red dot, as is the case on the D-lux and Panasonic. On these L mount cameras, the form factor will be extremely different. I look at the current Panasonic cameras and I can't possibly say I like what I see; and I have no idea about the user interface. It all looks a lot more like a Sony, and, despite how "loaded" the A7riii is, I bought the Q instead, and almost certainly will buy an SL(2?) after I buy my wife some jewelry to soften her up. I will likely swallow hard and pay the (probable) $3k delta between the SL2 and the Panasonic. If I can't in the end justify that, I'll buy the CL and realize I'm getting a 1/2 sensor for the price of a FF. But unless it has at least the form factor of the Nikon Z, I'll have no joy with Panasonic.

 

here's an optimistic view of the new Panasonic:

 

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2018/09/25/seven-reasons-the-new-panasonic-s1-and-s1r-will-knock-your-socks-off/

Edited September 25, 2018 by bags27

[Martin B]

The SL is almost 3 years old young and will likely be superseded by the SL2 in 2019 … when the new Panasonic and Sigma FF cameras will likely not match whatever the SL2 has up its sleeve.

 

dunk                                                                 

 

...certainly they won't match the price

[Nordvik]

I have been thinking about SL lately. The more I read about SL and Sony and Nikon and Canon, I think SL was a very good camera three years ago. And it is still a very good camera. I can see myself buying a used one in the near future. If the price is right.

[Martin B]

I have been thinking about SL lately. The more I read about SL and Sony and Nikon and Canon, I think SL was a very good camera three years ago. And it is still a very good camera. I can see myself buying a used one in the near future. If the price is right.

 

If you are patient, I am sure there will be many SL cameras offered for sale after the Panasonic MLCs are released. Probably an excellent time then to snap the SL for > 50% less of its original value. 

[IkarusJohn]

Because a camera is more than the sum of the parts. Much as I dislike car analogies, the Jaguar X-type was based on the Ford Mondeo, yet it was a "real" Jaguar and the best selling one ever too. Additionally, I suspect that Leica's margin on lenses is much higher than on cameras. Who cares if they sell a few bodies less if lens sales increase substantially?

I even doubt whether that will happen, some Panasonic customers will want to move up. And Panaleicas sell well.

 

I sincerely hope you're right.

 

Gordon has set out an impressive list of technology gains for the next SL.  None particularly interest me, but I understand his need.  If Leica adopts even half of his list, I will genuinely be very happy for him.  Anything which boosts Leica sales has to be in all our best interests.

 

For myself, I think I'll remain happy with what I have,

[frame-it]

well, a few weeks back i saw a mint condition s006 for $3k+ and mint s007 for $4k+ at one of the most expensive camera shops in Tokyo..am sure the SL would go down to $2.8k - 3.5k

 

 

If you are patient, I am sure there will be many SL cameras offered for sale after the Panasonic MLCs are released. Probably an excellent time then to snap the SL for > 50% less of its original value. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by frame-it

[Mr.Q]

If you are patient, I am sure there will be many SL cameras offered for sale after the Panasonic MLCs are released. Probably an excellent time then to snap the SL for > 50% less of its original value. 

 

And the opposite is true too.

 

I sold my SL to return to the M10P before this announcement. Glad that I did before it depreciated. 

 

This L-mount alliance just makes things too convoluted and confusing imo....

 

I may be back in a few years but for the time being I'm going with the GFX + 32-64 to replace the SL + 24-90.

[LD_50]

And the opposite is true too.

 

I sold my SL to return to the M10P before this announcement. Glad that I did before it depreciated.

 

This L-mount alliance just makes things too convoluted and confusing imo....

 

I may be back in a few years but for the time being I'm going with the GFX + 32-64 to replace the SL + 24-90.

What’s confusing? Pick a camera and you have a lot of lens options in the next few years.

 

If you want all Leica (as was available before the L-mount annoincement), stick with the Leica ones. I can’t see how more lenses or cameras available is confusing or convoluted.

[IkarusJohn]

I never buy my camera gear with resale in mind - what becomes available, upgrades, new models are pretty much irrelevant to the enjoyment (or lack of it) I get from the cameras I own.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[sillbeers15]

Now that the Leica, Panasonic & Sigma alliance on LMount is reality, we will wait and see how much details on camera user format becomes common on top of lens interchangeable compatibility.

I am personally interested to see a common camera flash protocol to have sufficient economies of scale to attract 3rd party strobe makers such as Profoto to offer TTL / HSS solution.

[SrMi]

I expect Leica SL2 to have sensor modifications and built-in profiles to support M lenses as good as the SL does. I do not expect Panasonic camera do the same. Therefore, for those who want to continue to mix M-mount and L-mount lenses, Leica, even if more expensive, will remain the ticket.