pgk Posted April 12, 2018 Share #21 Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) If I were to stop down say the 50 Lux ASPH would I see much difference compared to the APO 50? At F8? I wondered if I would really miss much / see much difference with a new 35 Cron vs my Version 1 35 Lux APSH? At around F5.6? Answers: No to the first question, No to the second. To reiterate: ALL the lenses you listed will produce technically excellent landscapes (even the 75mm Summilux which I use as much as the Summicron for landscape work - it has a subtly smoother micro-contrast which can be preferable if you are into nuances). The point is that the vast majority of lenses are very capable at mid-apertures until diffraction limited at smaller ones. Most differences may be seen wide-open and slightly stopped down. Personally for landscapes I would probably choose lenses on weight ...... Edited April 12, 2018 by pgk 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 Hi pgk, Take a look here Sharpest M Lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mmradman Posted April 12, 2018 Share #22 Posted April 12, 2018 Hi PGK, every time comparison between APO Summicron 50 and Summilux 50 ASPH is raised you state no difference between the two. I gather you do photography for a living so i presume you know what you are talking about, i agree with the spirit & tone of your statement, Summilux will produce exceptional images. I am just an amateur and my assertion is that even a bottom of Coca-Cola bottle in right hand will turn good picture but there is difference between two M lenses. To my eyes APO produces clearer/crisper image at all F stops, i tried it & keep both lenses. APO is, for me, perfect companion to M246 and Summilux as you never sell Leica lens Answers: No to the first question, No to the second. To reiterate: ALL the lenses you listed will produce technically excellent landscapes (even the 75mm Summilux which I use as much as the Summicron for landscape work - it has a subtly smoother micro-contrast which can be preferable if you are into nuances). The point is that the vast majority of lenses are very capable at mid-apertures until diffraction limited at smaller ones. Most differences may be seen wide-open and slightly stopped down. Personally for landscapes I would probably choose lenses on weight ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted April 12, 2018 Share #23 Posted April 12, 2018 I have the following lenses that I feel will work well for this already. 21mm SE 28mm Elmarit ASPH II 35mm Lux APSH non FLE - Possibly not ideal? 50mm Summilux ASPH - Possibly not ideal? Is the 50 cron sharper? 75mm Lux - Not ideal 90mm Cron ASPH - Probably perfect sharpness, just heavy. I would recommend the following "hikeable" changes, for a small kit that is at least as sharp. 21/28 - you already have what you need 35 - Summarit f/2.5 or f/2.4 50 - Summicron, simply for compactness and light weight, unless you want to spring for the expensive APO. 75 - Summarit f/2.4 or f/2.5. MUCH smaller and lighter, extremely sharp at most apertures. The f/2.4 focuses as tightly as the Summilux for details (flowers, rocks, etc.), although if you add the 90 Macro, that won't be a factor. IMHO, it is the sharpest short tele Leica has ever made (!!). 90 - probably the previously-mentioned 90 Macro. I've used the Summarit 90 and never found it to be as "persuasive" in sharpness as the 75 rit. It is based on the non-APO 90 Summicron design of the 1980s-90s - smooth for portraits, reasonably sharp for journalism, but not the sharpness knife in the drawer. The last 90 Elmarit-M (built-in hood) is almost as sharp as the 90 APO (and perhaps better in the close-up range), but is not all that light or compact (it's based on a lens designed for the R system - 410 grams). Attached - 75 Summarit f/2.4 @ f/5.6 on Leica M10, full image and crop detail. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/283584-sharpest-m-lenses/?do=findComment&comment=3499016'>More sharing options...
pgk Posted April 12, 2018 Share #24 Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) To my eyes APO produces clearer/crisper image at all F stops, i tried it & keep both lenses. APO is, for me, perfect companion to M246 and Summilux as you never sell Leica lens If I compare the 75mm Summilux and Summicron stopped down I would say that there IS a difference in the files given the right subject matter and appropriate lighting. However, in such circumstances either lens is capable of extremely high quality images stopped down. The differences are nuances - they are marginal. And I am absolutely sure that the same is true for the 50mm Summilux Aspheric and the APO. The question asked was whether there was much difference and I stand by my statement - no. The problem we have is that the APO is a statement lens - a design which shows just what Leica can produce. But the Aspheric already produces exceptionally good images. For landscapes either will produce superb images in suitable conditions, but whether any but the most critical of examiners would notice is a good question. What I would say is that nobody will complain about the image from either of them. Difference, yes, probably, perhaps, maybe - depending on subject and lighting. Significant difference relevant to 'real world photography? Extremely doubtful in all honesty. Just to add that if you want the 'best' money can buy then the APO fits the bill (literally). If you want a lens to use which is perfectly usable at the highest levels, then either is. Edited April 12, 2018 by pgk 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted April 12, 2018 Share #25 Posted April 12, 2018 I am with HCB all the way on the oft quoted 'sharpness is a bourgeois concept'. Unfortunately, digital photography has led to many photographers blowing up their images to check on how good their pixels are rather than looking at the 'big picture' of photographic image content. All that being said, the lens which produced the most likeable images for me on a recent trip was the 24mm f3.8 Elmar. I also love the 'look' from pre-war LTM lenses, even though many would condemn them as being 'unsharp'. This is all about photographers' choices and taste, of course. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmrider2 Posted April 12, 2018 Share #26 Posted April 12, 2018 In 35 mm, arguably the sharpest lens made is the 35f2.8 C-Biogon. There is a lot of info out there on the internet that confirms it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted April 12, 2018 Share #27 Posted April 12, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you really want the 'sharpest' lens then try a process lens. Some are extraordinarily good. Of course they are optimised for one reproduction ratio ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsleica Posted April 12, 2018 Share #28 Posted April 12, 2018 The sharpest lens ever is..the one ..you have on your camera.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted April 12, 2018 Share #29 Posted April 12, 2018 Most glass lenses are sharper than your eyes 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 12, 2018 Share #30 Posted April 12, 2018 The best accessory for sharp images is a good tripod. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted April 12, 2018 Share #31 Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) The best accessory for sharp images is a good tripod. And a view camera not less than 8x10 with very slow film of course . Don't forget APO lens ... Edited April 12, 2018 by a.noctilux 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 12, 2018 Share #32 Posted April 12, 2018 And a view camera not less than 8x10 with very slow film of course . Don't forget APO lens ... Exactly, but for LF APO lenses are not justifiable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTLeica Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share #33 Posted April 13, 2018 I am going to test a few of the ones that I have already... On a tripod this weekend. From there I will work out what I want or need (need probably nothing).... I just like to sound things off against some knowledgable folk. It makes me feel better After seeing a few tests with the 50 Lux, I am 99% sure that'll be more than adequate. 21 SE and 28 Elmarit should be perfect. 35 Lux ASPH I am sure will be fine. I dont really need a 75 anyway and the 90 APO is perfectly fine just heavy. 135mm maybe I will add - damn I have to buy something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mute-on Posted April 13, 2018 Share #34 Posted April 13, 2018 I am going to test a few of the ones that I have already... On a tripod this weekend. From there I will work out what I want or need (need probably nothing).... I just like to sound things off against some knowledgable folk. It makes me feel better After seeing a few tests with the 50 Lux, I am 99% sure that'll be more than adequate. 21 SE and 28 Elmarit should be perfect. 35 Lux ASPH I am sure will be fine. I dont really need a 75 anyway and the 90 APO is perfectly fine just heavy. 135mm maybe I will add - damn I have to buy something Good plan. You are probably right that you don’t need any new lenses. However, what camera body are you putting these marvellous lenses on? J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted April 13, 2018 Share #35 Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) re: 50 APO as a “statement lens”; true enough but you will never, ever shoot a lens at f/2 like it. Nor will you find anything that even approaches its capabilities at twice the size. Ever hold an Otus 1,4/55? Edited April 13, 2018 by james.liam 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted April 13, 2018 Share #36 Posted April 13, 2018 re: 50 APO as a “statement lens”; true enough but you will never, ever shoot a lens at f/2 like it. Nor will you find anything that even approaches its capabilities at twice the size. Ever hold an Otus 1,4/55? Yes it illustrates the 'state of the art' of compact lens design. No I've seen an Otus and that was enough, but the Summilux is an extremely capable lens and hardly enormous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 13, 2018 Share #37 Posted April 13, 2018 I am going to test a few of the ones that I have already... On a tripod this weekend. From there I will work out what I want or need (need probably nothing).... I just like to sound things off against some knowledgable folk. It makes me feel better After seeing a few tests with the 50 Lux, I am 99% sure that'll be more than adequate. 21 SE and 28 Elmarit should be perfect. 35 Lux ASPH I am sure will be fine. I dont really need a 75 anyway and the 90 APO is perfectly fine just heavy. 135mm maybe I will add - damn I have to buy something Get a Tele-Elmar 135. Wide open the difference to the 135 APO is hardly visible, one stop down and the lenses render equally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted April 13, 2018 Share #38 Posted April 13, 2018 Yes it illustrates the 'state of the art' of compact lens design. No I've seen an Otus and that was enough, but the Summilux is an extremely capable lens and hardly enormous. It is capable, and I should have included the Summilux as the exception however, it still outperforms even it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 13, 2018 Share #39 Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) [...] 21mm SE 28mm Elmarit ASPH II 35mm Lux APSH non FLE - Possibly not ideal? 50mm Summilux ASPH - Possibly not ideal? Is the 50 cron sharper? 75mm Lux - Not ideal 90mm Cron ASPH - Probably perfect sharpness, just heavy. So what are your thoughts? [...] As far as my lenses are concerned: - 21/3.4 asph: OK - 28/2.8 asph v2: No experience but at apertures you will probably use for landscapes (f/5.6 and on i guess), my 28/2.8 asph v1 is OK. Same, at those apertures, for my 28/2 v1 and v2. - 35/2 asph non FLE: No experience. The FLE version is one of my sharper 35s ever but so is the much cheaper Biogon-C 35/2.8 as well. - 50/1.4 asph: OK. Compared to 50/2 apo i cannot tell which is which at those apertures but i'm no pixel peeper. - 75/1.4: It is not a soft lens at all at those apertures but how i feel it it has less acutance than 75/2 apo or 75/2.5. The latter is a bargain. No experience with 75/2.4. - 90/2 apo: OK but if its bulk puts you off, the Macro-Elmar 90/4 is almost as sharp and is tiny by comparison. Edited April 13, 2018 by lct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted April 13, 2018 Share #40 Posted April 13, 2018 There are no bad Leica currently sold. 21, 24 3.8, 28 2.8 ASPH, 35 2.0 ASPH, 50 APO, 90 elmar - Pick what you want To keep things light & cheap, 28 or 35 from above list, 50 Summicron, 90 elmar from list 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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