M9 Long Term

[robboleica]

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For a while I was tempted by the M10 and toyed with the idea of trading in my M9 and a couple of lenses for the newer camera. But now I'm much more inclined to keep the M9 and perhaps get a used M9M at some point. 

While this change of heart slowly took place I have been using an M2 quite a lot, shooting and developing B&W film. It's curious that shooting B&W film has made me treasure (tolerate? XD) the M9 more than I did when I first switched to it from the A7.

 

I’m also quite inclined to keep the M9, if for no other reason than to save money.

I’d really like to try a mono for a week before buying one really. I already try to visualise a shot in mono and think ahead how a colour digital file will process in Lightroom. I used to try to think what grade paper I might print a shot with, while shooting.

 

I also enjoy using the digital colour filters too which would obviously be redundant with a mono RAW file.

 

I think the M9 really sensor suits mono processing, to my mind the highlights are less blown out than other cameras I’ve had, which may be due to a slight under exposure, or just a character in that CCD sensor. There’s definitely a quality that’s very different to modern CMOS sensors, which can to my eye produce rather bland file.

You may not want or like the M9 IQ, but it’s something I’ve got used to and in a world of homogeneity stands out as something a bit different.

[firoze]

Does anyone know when Leica started replacing M9 sensors with the new Mk II generation sensor (which is not prone to corrosion)? I have come across a M9 for sale in which the sensor was replaced on 26/July/2016. Any idea if this camera would have the latest generation replacement sensor? I have emailed Leica but have not heard from them.

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[Rus]

Does anyone know when Leica started replacing M9 sensors with the new Mk II generation sensor (which is not prone to corrosion)? I have come across a M9 for sale in which the sensor was replaced on 26/July/2016. Any idea if this camera would have the latest generation replacement sensor? I have emailed Leica but have not heard from them.

I think there’s a very good chance that it’s the MK II sensor.

[firoze]

I think there’s a very good chance that it’s the MK II sensor.

 

Thank you Rus, that is encouraging.

[chris_livsey]

Does anyone know when Leica started replacing M9 sensors with the new Mk II generation sensor (which is not prone to corrosion)? I have come across a M9 for sale in which the sensor was replaced on 26/July/2016. Any idea if this camera would have the latest generation replacement sensor? I have emailed Leica but have not heard from them.

The MkII sensor was announced in June 2015 and around October that year they began fitting them. 

July 2016, with appropriate confirmatory paperwork from Leica, date of work done should be enough, they are often vague about what was done, is going to be new 

 

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/06/leica-announces-permanent-fix-for-ccd-sensor-corrosion-on-m9m9-pmmm-e-models/

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249569-leica-m9-corrosion-sensor-replacement-starts-now/page-3?do=findComment&comment=2899666

Edited April 13, 2018 by chris_livsey

[firoze]

 

The MkII sensor was announced in June 2015 and around October that year they began fitting them. 

July 2016, with appropriate confirmatory paperwork from Leica, date of work done should be enough, they are often vague about what was done, is going to be new 

 

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/06/leica-announces-permanent-fix-for-ccd-sensor-corrosion-on-m9m9-pmmm-e-models/

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249569-leica-m9-corrosion-sensor-replacement-starts-now/page-3?do=findComment&comment=2899666

 

 

Thank you Chris, but if I am not mistaken, are you confusing the date Leica first started replacing corroded sensors, which I believe was Oct 2015? The first batch of these replacement sensors also turned out to be susceptible to corrosion. Leica then introduced a Mk II replacement sensor, which is not prone to corrosion. What I would like to know, is when Leica introduced this Mk II replacement sensor. I hope I am making sense, and thanks again for taking the trouble to answer my original question.

[firoze]

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Another thing, if a M9 produced in say 2010 still has the original sensor, which does not show signs of corrosion, would it be safe to say that sensor may probably not show corrosion in future? 

[dkCambridgeshire]

Another thing, if a M9 produced in say 2010 still has the original sensor, which does not show signs of corrosion, would it be safe to say that sensor may probably not show corrosion in future? 

 

 

I attended a Leica Mayfair camera maintenance / repair demonstration by David Slater their repair technician last year; David uses an original M9 himself and he stated that it's not inevitable that all original sensors will succumb to the corrosion problem. David uses an original M9 himself which so far shows no signs of corrosion. Unfortunately nobody can tell whether or not, or when, a sensor might start to corrode. The problem has not affected all M9 cameras; those so far free of corrosion do not come from any particular production batch. The actual % of failures is unknown … and not all failures have been reported. Personally, i'd be happy to buy an M9 with an original sensor which shows no sign of corrosion  - provided the price reflected the fact that it might fail in future. But, I suspect that if a sensor has not succumbed so far, then maybe it will not succumb in future. Leica Camera AG now charges for M9 sensor replacement but the price charged (according to Leica Mayfair) is actually below cost.  

 

dunk 

[firoze]

I attended a Leica Mayfair camera maintenance / repair demonstration by David Slater their repair technician last year; David uses an original M9 himself and he stated that it's not inevitable that all original sensors will succumb to the corrosion problem. David uses an original M9 himself which so far shows no signs of corrosion. Unfortunately nobody can tell whether or not, or when, a sensor might start to corrode. The problem has not affected all M9 cameras; those so far free of corrosion do not come from any particular production batch. The actual % of failures is unknown … and not all failures have been reported. Personally, i'd be happy to buy an M9 with an original sensor which shows no sign of corrosion  - provided the price reflected the fact that it might fail in future. But, I suspect that if a sensor has not succumbed so far, then maybe it will not succumb in future. Leica Camera AG now charges for M9 sensor replacement but the price charged (according to Leica Mayfair) is actually below cost.  

 

dunk 

 

Thank you dunk, this is most helpful and will allow me to make a more informed decision on buying a M9. 

[ianman]

I have my M9 since 2009, I still love it, I have no intention of buying another digital M soon or at any time, although at one point I was interested in a monochrom. My sensor was changed in 2016 and to me, photographs from the new sensor look even better than the original. It could be just wishful thinking but I saw a change when my camera came back from hospital. Although I did not like the replacement covering but I understand that the original M9 "vulcanite" is no longer available.

 

Personally, with that experience, if I was going to buy an M9 now, I would definitely try to get one with the latest sensor. At least you will have peace of mind without the constant thought that one day, the sensor could start corroding.

[firoze]

I have my M9 since 2009, I still love it, I have no intention of buying another digital M soon or at any time, although at one point I was interested in a monochrom. My sensor was changed in 2016 and to me, photographs from the new sensor look even better than the original. It could be just wishful thinking but I saw a change when my camera came back from hospital. Although I did not like the replacement covering but I understand that the original M9 "vulcanite" is no longer available.

 

Personally, with that experience, if I was going to buy an M9 now, I would definitely try to get one with the latest sensor. At least you will have peace of mind without the constant thought that one day, the sensor could start corroding.

My preference would certainly be a camera with the latest version of the replacement sensor. My post about an old sensor not corroding was because there was a possibility to acquire an as-new M9 with an old sensor.

[chris_livsey]

Thank you Chris, but if I am not mistaken, are you confusing the date Leica first started replacing corroded sensors, which I believe was Oct 2015? The first batch of these replacement sensors also turned out to be susceptible to corrosion. Leica then introduced a Mk II replacement sensor, which is not prone to corrosion. What I would like to know, is when Leica introduced this Mk II replacement sensor. I hope I am making sense, and thanks again for taking the trouble to answer my original question.

 

There is no confusion with me, have you opened and read the links I provided? You are incorrect in stating 2015.

The Leica programme for replacing corroded sensors with the same (MkI) sensor was announced in November 2014.

 

https://www.popphoto.com/gear/2014/12/leica-offers-sensor-replacement-m-series-cameras-suffering-sensor-glass-corrosion

 

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/12/11/leica-acknowledges-m-series-sensor-corrosion-issues-will-replace-affected-s

 

I will always post links to support any assertions I make on dates.

BTW the reconfiguration of Leica websites has removed the links all these articles refer to, no doubt with diligent use of "way back" they could be found as the primary source but I hope providing multiple sources will reassure you of the veracity, please take the time to read them.

Edited April 14, 2018 by chris_livsey

[firoze]

There is no confusion with me, have you opened and read the links I provided? You are incorrect in stating 2015.

The Leica programme for replacing corroded sensors with the same (MkI) sensor was announced in November 2014.

 

https://www.popphoto.com/gear/2014/12/leica-offers-sensor-replacement-m-series-cameras-suffering-sensor-glass-corrosion

 

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/12/11/leica-acknowledges-m-series-sensor-corrosion-issues-will-replace-affected-s

 

I will always post links to support any assertions I make on dates.

BTW the reconfiguration of Leica websites has removed the links all these articles refer to, no doubt with diligent use of "way back" they could be found as the primary source but I hope providing multiple sources will reassure you of the veracity, please take the time to read them.

Apologies Chris, your dates are correct, don’t know how I missed out those links. Good to know the latest sensors were being fitted Oct 2015 onwards. Which means the camera in question should have the new sensor. Thanks!

[chris_livsey]

Apologies Chris, your dates are correct, don’t know how I missed out those links. Good to know the latest sensors were being fitted Oct 2015 onwards. Which means the camera in question should have the new sensor. Thanks!

 

No problem, it has been a long and confusing journey, you are aware of how to check the activations? if at a distance from the seller it may be difficult but if a dealer they should know how to do it from the service menu.

General condition is as good a guide though, very few have been "hammered". 

 

It is possible an old sensor may not corrode but you would need a price that assumed it would to cover your purchase, much better IMHO to spend now on one with MkII which will have had a full check on function, rangefinder included, from Leica.

Edited April 14, 2018 by chris_livsey

[firoze]

No problem, it has been a long and confusing journey, you are aware of how to check the activations? if at a distance from the seller it may be difficult but if a dealer they should know how to do it from the service menu.

General condition is as good a guide though, very few have been "hammered". 

 

It is possible an old sensor may not corrode but you would need a price that assumed it would to cover your purchase, much better IMHO to spend now on one with MkII which will have had a full check on function, rangefinder included, from Leica.

I do know how to check the shutter count from the Exif data by converting the Unique ID Hex number to decimal. I did come across how to do it from the service menu on this forum, but off-hand I can’t remember how. I’ll have to do a search.

[chris_livsey]

1. Turn on your camera.

2. By using the buttons on the back of the camera,  this sequence will enter factory service mode:

    Delete >  Up (2x) > Down (4x)  > Left (3x) > Right (3x) >  Info

 

To find how many shutter actuations, highlight with down arrow Body Debug Data (one down) and press Set.  Scroll down the list (using down arrow). To get out of the service mode, simply turn camera off.  

 

The first item firmware info if selected will show body "build" date and confirm serial number.

[firoze]

 

1. Turn on your camera.

2. By using the buttons on the back of the camera,  this sequence will enter factory service mode:

    Delete >  Up (2x) > Down (4x)  > Left (3x) > Right (3x) >  Info

 

To find how many shutter actuations, highlight with down arrow Body Debug Data (one down) and press Set.  Scroll down the list (using down arrow). To get out of the service mode, simply turn camera off.  

 

The first item firmware info if selected will show body "build" date and confirm serial number.

 

 

Many thanks Chris. So just to be sure I understand this right, following the instructions to get into Service Mode, and then "To find how many shutter actuations, highlight with down arrow Body Debug Data (one down) and press Set". This will show me the shutter actuations?

[chris_livsey]

Many thanks Chris. So just to be sure I understand this right, following the instructions to get into Service Mode, and then "To find how many shutter actuations, highlight with down arrow Body Debug Data (one down) and press Set". This will show me the shutter actuations?

That sequence loads a screen full of data, you need to again press one down arrow as the "NumExposures" is just off the first screen at the bottom of the list.

[firoze]

That sequence loads a screen full of data, you need to again press one down arrow as the "NumExposures" is just off the first screen at the bottom of the list.

Got it, Chris. Thanks!

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[pico]

The first item firmware info if selected will show body "build" date and confirm serial number.

 

Body build date is probably incorrect. Both my M9s have exactly the same date & time - to the second. Serial numbers are correct.

 

Body:0.052 Oct 23 2012,08:56:34

Edited April 15, 2018 by pico