Which real camera+single lens?

[M11 for me]

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Thank you for going so much into detail. Its great that you answer so openly.

 

- What did you shoot before?

As many here we have at least 2 camera systems. I could not be without my Canon gear: (1) long lenses and (2) AF. But as I understand from you the bulky DSLRs are not your thing any more. This is exactly how I ended up with Leica. BUT: I am photographing since about 1965. All trough film and then digital. Starting with IXUS as I thought that digital was digital and finally ending with 5D, 5D II, III and today IV. I have 11 lenses; primes and zooms. Plus flashes . . . Lee stuff. And finally being back where I started somehow with Leica. Before buying a Leica it might be important to have some experience the line up.

 

- Why not Sony and Co?

A camera is a tool. The M10 is not the easiest. Sony offers much more, no doubt. And in the DxO thread we learned that the Leica is not better than Sony. Maybe equal at the most. So no reason to go for Leica. Note that you will never be just with one lens. For Leica you have to have free fund of around $30.000. Plan to have 3 lenses and within 5 years you will have 5. And just because its nice in the hands?? Why not stay with the iPhone? Or switch to the X. Then you have 2 cams: One with 28mm lens and a secons one with 56mm. Great.

 

- What do your friends shoot with?

Very often in a group you would like to be among people that do similar things. That is why I wondered to make sure that you are not mislead and the M10 within a few months stays in the drawer at home.

- Why not APS-C?

You like the Bokeh. Of course, me too. But be aware: What lens for Bokeh? Hm. A whole science. You ask about low light. The physics tell us that full frame is about 1 light value better compared to APS-C (Crop 1.5 multiplied f/2.0 of APS-C equals roughly f/3 with full frame). Often in practice this does not matter at all. Only in low light full frame gives you some reserves. The result is probably similar as if you would buy a Summilux or a Summicron. Lot of people claim that in practice there is no difference. Is it worth then to go for full frame?

- Do you know that Sony is much better?

Of course this is somehow rethoric. But when you start without any background in rangefinders then purely technically speaking the Sony is by far superior. It has a fully different sensor. Read in the thread „DxO“: There you can see a lot of comparisons Sony vs. M10. But if you believe that a Rolex shows you the most accurate time then go for a Rolex. But promise me to strongly believe in this.

- Does your whish make sense?

I believe that it helps not to jump into it. Of course its nice to have a Leica, a Rolex, a Mercedes . . . what next?

- How many lenses?

I believe that many Leica users have only 1 lens. The same is true with Canon users (most of them have just the kit lens). You might be fine with that. But if that is what you want why not buy a Fuji X100? Yes, the camera is obsolete after a few years whereas the lens would live on. A difficult decision.

 

At the end it is true that the M10 is a jewel. A beautiful piece of a camera. If that is what you want then stop asking. Just go and buy it to own it.

[mertas]

Thank you for going so much into detail. Its great that you answer so openly.

 

- What did you shoot before?

As many here we have at least 2 camera systems. I could not be without my Canon gear: (1) long lenses and (2) AF. But as I understand from you the bulky DSLRs are not your thing any more. This is exactly how I ended up with Leica. BUT: I am photographing since about 1965. All trough film and then digital. Starting with IXUS as I thought that digital was digital and finally ending with 5D, 5D II, III and today IV. I have 11 lenses; primes and zooms. Plus flashes . . . Lee stuff. And finally being back where I started somehow with Leica. Before buying a Leica it might be important to have some experience the line up.

 

- Why not Sony and Co?

A camera is a tool. The M10 is not the easiest. Sony offers much more, no doubt. And in the DxO thread we learned that the Leica is not better than Sony. Maybe equal at the most. So no reason to go for Leica. Note that you will never be just with one lens. For Leica you have to have free fund of around $30.000. Plan to have 3 lenses and within 5 years you will have 5. And just because its nice in the hands?? Why not stay with the iPhone? Or switch to the X. Then you have 2 cams: One with 28mm lens and a secons one with 56mm. Great.

 

- What do your friends shoot with?

Very often in a group you would like to be among people that do similar things. That is why I wondered to make sure that you are not mislead and the M10 within a few months stays in the drawer at home.

- Why not APS-C?

You like the Bokeh. Of course, me too. But be aware: What lens for Bokeh? Hm. A whole science. You ask about low light. The physics tell us that full frame is about 1 light value better compared to APS-C (Crop 1.5 multiplied f/2.0 of APS-C equals roughly f/3 with full frame). Often in practice this does not matter at all. Only in low light full frame gives you some reserves. The result is probably similar as if you would buy a Summilux or a Summicron. Lot of people claim that in practice there is no difference. Is it worth then to go for full frame?

- Do you know that Sony is much better?

Of course this is somehow rethoric. But when you start without any background in rangefinders then purely technically speaking the Sony is by far superior. It has a fully different sensor. Read in the thread „DxO“: There you can see a lot of comparisons Sony vs. M10. But if you believe that a Rolex shows you the most accurate time then go for a Rolex. But promise me to strongly believe in this.

- Does your whish make sense?

I believe that it helps not to jump into it. Of course its nice to have a Leica, a Rolex, a Mercedes . . . what next?

- How many lenses?

I believe that many Leica users have only 1 lens. The same is true with Canon users (most of them have just the kit lens). You might be fine with that. But if that is what you want why not buy a Fuji X100? Yes, the camera is obsolete after a few years whereas the lens would live on. A difficult decision.

 

At the end it is true that the M10 is a jewel. A beautiful piece of a camera. If that is what you want then stop asking. Just go and buy it to own it.

 

Have you ever taken photos with iPhone?

I will always have one with me, but it is not flexible at all, not talking about low-light, no bookeh at all, no control of speed, aperture, iso - and if so it is terribly slow

Fuji X100 was not my taste.

I am not thinking about Leica because of having something like Rolex, but to stop making research and just shot :-)

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[M11 for me]

Oh, ma wife has an iPhone X because of the camera and she loves it. And she makes stunning photographs :-) But its true.

 

Leica is like Rolex :-) I have both :-) 

 

But you are right. The Leica is an incredible experience. I am 100% happy with it. Or when considering that in 10% of the cases I still use Canon then I am 90% happy. And as a consequence I am 10% happy with Canon :-(

[a.noctilux]

Mertas,

 

Your quest may be joyful or not (or hopeless maybe) depend on so many parameters.

 

One camera + one lens is something I would do (that is wisdom) but with M Camera that idea is some sort of not comfortable situation.

Another system is much lighter/logic/small than M.

I have tried that 1+1 so many times, but been never happy with only one lens on M .

 

I can suggest only that you take one M + one lens (can be 35 or 50) first then decide after using a while.

Maybe this kit is not for you.

 

Then at second time look for a kit for your wife who may have another type of photography than yourself.

 

As side note, my lovely wife she is happy with one M + one lens.

But over time, that one lens is transformed : 50mm then 75mm and now Tri-Elmar-M (MATE 28-35-50).

[M11 for me]

Mertas,

 

Your quest may be joyful or not (or hopeless maybe) depend on so many parameters.

 

One camera + one lens is something I would do (that is wisdom) but with M Camera that idea is some sort of not comfortable situation.

Another system is much lighter/logic/small than M.

I have tried that 1+1 so many times, but been never happy with only one lens on M .

 

I can suggest only that you take one M + one lens (can be 35 or 50) first then decide after using a while.

Maybe this kit is not for you.

 

Then at second time look for a kit for your wife who may have another type of photography than yourself.

 

As side note, my lovely wife she is happy with one M + one lens.

But over time, that one lens is transformed : 50mm then 75mm and now Tri-Elmar-M (MATE 28-35-50).

 

Right. You start with one lens and then  . . . .

[a.noctilux]

Right. You start with one lens and then  . . . .

 

A joke that I answered sometime to some  :

 - how many lenses do you use ? a nearby photographer ask me

 - I don't know, after fifty units, I don't count them anymore

[paulsydaus]

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Good thing many of the LUF posters in this forum don’t work in Leica sales!? The OP kind of knows what he wants. We were all new to Leica or photography at some point. Why so harsh/critical? I think he should go for it. Money isn’t an issue and apart from learning rangefinder focusing the M10 is exactly what he is asking for.

OP go for the M10 and 35mm Summicron, you will not be disappointed.

Can’t say I agree with comments re: three lenses.

Take one lens at a time and learn it. Nothing wrong with that.

C’mon, let’s welcome a new member to the Leica fold. Or is this forum a bunch of elitist? I don’t think it is...?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[robert blu]

Welcome to this forum mertas! Nice to have you interested in Leica 

 

Believe me, please! I have an M10 and since last summer my 35 F2 is on it. I have a 50, a 75 and even a 12 (12 is Voitglander, not Leica) but do not feel the need to use all of them.

 

What I mean is that one camera+one lens is an adequate system to start and enjoy the benefits of simplicity! Go out, frame, and shoot, it seems me you already have photographic experience and in a short time you'll start to appreciate your camera and lens combination!

 

More lenses? Why not, but later. Only when you will have got out, I dare to say "squeezed" out all the possibilities from the 35 ! Go for the M10+35, do not be afraid !

And again welcome to this forum 

 

robert

Edited January 18, 2018 by robert blu

[mertas]

thanks for all great remarks and experiences.

at this moment I came to this Leica start-up conclusion:

 

1. Leica CL  +23/2 cron   - camera for my wife, AF, small, portable, basic video for dailies with family.

Herewith we start with lower investment into Leica word and proof 35mm shooting experience.

We will see, if "toy wheels dials and lens without aperture ring" will be ergonomic bariere and also will see, if we need M series.

 

Based on that I will reconsider PHOTO camera for me.

Either second CL body with 50mm M lens with adapter  (small size solution)   or maybe some Leica Q50, if it comes.   Or M10  + something, what will turn out as 35,50,75

 

and i case I need best for profesional-everything (VIDEO, FOTO with fast AF and long lenses) I will have some Sony A7 xy,  but this will not have soul and joy as Leica - it will be just tool for product shooting etc.

 

and iPhone - of course, I will use it for making notes or when I do not have Leica with me.

 

Does it make a better sens now?

[@ndy_ellis]

I think avoiding the M is dancing around the edges instead of jumping into the heart of the Leica experience.  

[mertas]

I think avoiding the M is dancing around the edges instead of jumping into the heart of the Leica experience.  

you are right, but wouldnt be my wife not upset, if I buy camera 2x more expensive just for me? In case she loves it, than she has understanding for my passion. :-)

[a.noctilux]

you are right, but wouldnt be my wife not upset, if I buy camera 2x more expensive just for me? In case she loves it, than she has understanding for my passion. :-)

 

In your first post...you wrote

 

...

Money are not issue, i am going to do investment for the rest of my life and enjoy.

...

 

So what ?

 

I think that your wife would say as mine always says : "do what you want with your money ..."

 

And she does make better photos than me with what ever she has for use.

Edited January 18, 2018 by a.noctilux

[mertas]

I do not like thinks, which are not in consens with my behaviour. and someone wrote here, that M10 is not for the rest of life, so I changed aproach.

By guitars I do not hesitate to invest huge money, because they last for decades.

 

True, my wife also makes the best shots. But she is not willing to make nice postproduction, so she only wonders, how nice photos she takes.

And therefore she will have camera earlier than me.

Fair enough hmm? :-)

[a.noctilux]

Digital Cameras are all disposable for short or longer time.

 

I think that approching as "System" is more realistic than "Camera" for long time use.

 

After the M10 will be the M11 or M10a, M10-2 etc. with more or better features, but happy M10 users may ignore those.

[Le Chef]

I’m at that point in photography where I sold a Canon F1, and A1 + a bag full of lenses as I felt the decision making about what to take dominated the joy of taking pictures. I sold the lot and went simple with a DL 109.

 

Now I’m trying to balance the siren call of buying better equipment against just having a better eye for potential images. In the back of my mind is an M camera. My father owned rangefinders that occasionally I would be allowed to use, so I’m familiar with how to use one, but I want to avoid creeping back to owning a bag full of lenses and focusing on what to use rather than just taking the best shot you can with what you have.

 

At this point I’m leaning towards keeping the 109 and adding a Q...but...

Edited January 20, 2018 by Le Chef

[mhicks]

If money is no object, I’d start with the m10 and the APO 50.

 

As for manually focusing quickly, like anything else in life, practice, practice, practice. Shoot every day. After a few months you wont think of pure manual focus as a handicap, rather, as just part of your photography experience.

 

While it’s true that one camera can not do all things well, this one does it well enough for me.

[albertknappmd]

M10 + 35mm f/1.4

 

M10 + 90mm f/2

 

covers a wide range of possibilities.....

 

Albert     

Edited January 21, 2018 by albertknappmd

[Herr Barnack]

After selling all my Canon L gear  24-70/2,8  , 70-200/4.  50/1,8

After shooting with iPhone 6plus

I am coming to conclusion, that i search small camera with one lens. Not bag with all gear.

 

My needs:

-28 or 35 mm lens

-50 mm lens

-shooting wide open

-shooting low light

-travelling

- simplicity - auto iso, aperture priority and rest is just enjoying photography

- preferably 2 bodies - we shot both with my wife when with family or travelling

 

I have tried Leica Q and was impressed with simplicity, speed, but 28mm seems to me to be too "deforming faces of people" and rather think about 35mm lens.

I didnt like Leica CL - toy feel with strange wheels on back, and Leica SL is too robust like Canon DSLR...  I am searching real photocamera - well build, but as small as possible.

 

What set would you suggest me and why?

Is there any web site comparing 35 and 50 M lenses with real photos?

Money are not issue, i am going to do investment for the rest of my life and enjoy.

 

M10+35mm - which lens?

Leica Q50mm - autofocus and video (if it commes)

 

 

or M10+50 mm - which lens?

Leica Q  - autofocus and video

 

 

or just M10 with 2 lenses?

 

I would suggest two M10 bodies with a 28 Summicron ASPH #11672 mounted on one and a 50 Summilux ASPH #11891 mounted on the other, and 2-3 batteries per body.

 

Why would I suggest this?  I have found that a 28mm and a 50mm will meet 90% or more of my lens needs for shooting documentary, travel, low light, landscape, street, family, vacation, urban some portrait and general photography.  Since you are wanting an M10 and M lenses, I am proceeding under the belief that you shoot similar subjects; after all, the M system is not the kind of gear that sports, wildlife and/or bird photographers would go for. 

 

Also - If portrait photography is a big thing for you or your wife, I would suggest adding a 75 or 90 Summicron to your kit.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Herr Barnack

[pgh]

If 35mm focal length will work, get the Sony rx1rII. It's easily the best image quality for size combination that exists, the sensor is noticeably better than that in the M10, and it is smaller than a Leica. If they made a 50mm version of that camera I'd buy that too and maybe sell my M10. It is small, has decent autofocus, a leaf shutter (!!), a wonderful lens.

There are a few downfalls, some feel it is too small, and the battery life is not great (200-300 shots), but batteries are cheap. Personally, I think it is a great tool. I also do not buy the 'sony feels like a computer' arguments - I find my Sony cameras quite user friendly after I spent an hour or so setting them up for my purposes. They are not quite as elegant as the M10, but on every technical aspect they outperform it. It feels better to hold the Leica, but I use my Rx all the time, and can make bigger prints. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Mr.Q]

I think avoiding the M is dancing around the edges instead of jumping into the heart of the Leica experience.

 

So true.