Rick in CO Posted July 5, 2020 Share #61  Posted July 5, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 15 minutes ago, willeica said: Definitely nickel. Looks like a repaint or maybe just 'one careful owner', just joking about that. Personally, I prefer the original brassing to be still there. That lens barrel also looks like a re-nickel job too. I got a very nice II Model D with a bell push 11 O'Clock Elmar at auction a couple of years ago. It looked way too pristine for 86 years old when I finally got my hands on it. Personally, I prefer patina to pristine any day of the week. I know that some other collectors feel the same way. I would never get any item in my collection repainted or re-chromed or re-nickeled. This is just personal taste, of course. William  Was curious.  Didn't pay much for it, probably a lot less than what it cost to re-paint and re-nickel if thats what it is. Prettiest old Leica in my modest collection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 Hi Rick in CO, Take a look here Black Leica iii's with Chrome. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
willeica Posted July 5, 2020 Share #62  Posted July 5, 2020 The monetary value of any vintage camera is what someone is prepared to pay for it, but the value to the owner is something entirely different and might not relate to cosmetic condition. I have 6 black II Model Ds, but my favourite one is not the prettiest one, but rather this one for reasons that should be obvious. It was purchased by someone in my native city during the Summer of 1932.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! William 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! William ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/280334-black-leica-iiis-with-chrome/?do=findComment&comment=4004396'>More sharing options...
jerzy Posted July 6, 2020 Share #63  Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) vor 22 Stunden schrieb ironringer: Interesting topic, and these old black enamel Leicas are beautiful, catching much attention whenever I use them in my travels (not recently, of course). I am not sure if my 1936 Leica III shown below has chrome or nickel fittings, and you experts (especially Jerzy) will advise. It sure takes excellent pictures with my 1954 "red scale" Elmar, and its shutter is a bit quieter with a smoother "trigger" release, compared to my Leica II Type D. nickel fittings, for sure. I think I know this camera, Jim 🙂 Edited July 6, 2020 by jerzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted July 6, 2020 Share #64  Posted July 6, 2020 vor 16 Stunden schrieb Rick in CO: Just curious, heres a Leica II No 90737 in black with Elmar 143140 both from 1932. Original or re-paint, Nickel or Chrome? As William wrote nickel. Beautiful camera, in my opinion, in original, unrestored condition (as fas as i can judge the black paint based on the photo). I believe as well that Elmar has not been re-nickeled, the camera was simply rarely used. Barrels on Elmars were plated more shiny that other elements and it was dust which made them less shiny (extracting and retracting). Btw, if I am correct, it could one of the first Elmars with 7 oclock mount, it was about SN 143xxx when the transition from 11 oclock was. At least the lens which I inspected with SN 143610 was 7 oclock in original condition 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted July 6, 2020 Share #65  Posted July 6, 2020 58 minutes ago, jerzy said: I believe as well that Elmar has not been re-nickeled, the camera was simply rarely used. Thanks Jerzy. I will post a picture of the camera I have with the very shiny barrel. You could nearly use it as a mirror. In my experience most nickel lens barrels ( and, as you know, I have a lot them) develop scratching and go dull with use over a long number of years. I would be interested in your opinion.  I agree that there are cameras out there which have hardly ever been used, but they are comparatively rare. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnW. Posted July 6, 2020 Share #66  Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, jerzy said:  Btw, if I am correct, it could one of the first Elmars with 7 oclock mount, it was about SN 143xxx when the transition from 11 oclock was. At least the lens which I inspected with SN 143610 was 7 oclock in original condition I have a Nickel Elmar with SN 1333xx with 7 o'clock mount, I think this dates from 1931. Could this have been a later conversion? The lens has a standardize '0" mark Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/280334-black-leica-iiis-with-chrome/?do=findComment&comment=4004612'>More sharing options...
willeica Posted July 6, 2020 Share #67  Posted July 6, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, JohnW. said: I have a Nickel Elmar with SN 1333xx with 7 o'clock mount, I think this dates from 1931. Could this have been a later conversion? The lens has a standardize '0" mark Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! What is the serial number of your camera? It seems to start with a 1, so your camera might be a conversion from a I Model A. I have a couple of early Elmars converted to 7 O'Clock from 11 O'Clock versions on I Model As , but they have no serial number. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted July 6, 2020 Share #68  Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) For Jerzy's opinion. Here are my two bell push 11 O'Clock Elmars on II Model Ds. I only bought the first one one to get a bell push version, but then 6 months later the second one with the 'Dublin' engraving turned up and I just had to buy it because of that. I had been searching for an example of this engraving for some years after I had seen an example in Laney's book. The first example is II Model D SN 86739 with Elmar SN 130548. The black paint is fine but, as expected, there is some 'brassing' at the back where the camera would have rubbed off the user's face. The 'push' button is somewhat worn, but the lens barrel, while it has some scratches, is very pristine. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The second example is the II Model D SN 78952 with Elmar SN 120710. There is also the usual edge 'brassing' at the back, but, while the push button is pristine, the lens barrel is not in such good condition as that on the camera shown above. Perhaps I am just thinking too much about these cameras. The lower one is my favourite of the two and, as I said, I would not have bought the top one, which is in better condition, if I had bought the engraved one first. My other 4 black II Model Ds came with a 7 O'Clock Elmar, Hektors ( 2, one with an engraving on the body) and a Summar. So, it is a model I am quite familiar with. William   Edited July 6, 2020 by willeica Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The second example is the II Model D SN 78952 with Elmar SN 120710. There is also the usual edge 'brassing' at the back, but, while the push button is pristine, the lens barrel is not in such good condition as that on the camera shown above. Perhaps I am just thinking too much about these cameras. The lower one is my favourite of the two and, as I said, I would not have bought the top one, which is in better condition, if I had bought the engraved one first. My other 4 black II Model Ds came with a 7 O'Clock Elmar, Hektors ( 2, one with an engraving on the body) and a Summar. So, it is a model I am quite familiar with. William   ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/280334-black-leica-iiis-with-chrome/?do=findComment&comment=4004715'>More sharing options...
JohnW. Posted July 6, 2020 Share #69  Posted July 6, 2020 24 minutes ago, willeica said: What is the serial number of your camera? It seems to start with a 1, so your camera might be a conversion from a I Model A. I have a couple of early Elmars converted to 7 O'Clock from 11 O'Clock versions on I Model As , but they have no serial number. William Yes, the camera is 1A converted to ll, serial 18873 (1929). There is a label stuck inside the bottom cover, see below, don't know when that was stuck in. I have owned the camera for about 5 years. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  The lens serial no. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  The lens serial no. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/280334-black-leica-iiis-with-chrome/?do=findComment&comment=4004728'>More sharing options...
willeica Posted July 6, 2020 Share #70  Posted July 6, 2020 Here is my I Model A SN 23862  which had been converted to a Leica Standard with standardised mount, no hockey stick and the narrower rewind knob. The lens, which is now 7 O'Clock,  has no serial number and is a bit shorter in the barrel than other Elmars. Jerzy and I have discussed this lens outside the forum quite a few times and I am convinced that it is an 11 O'Clock lens that has been put into a 7 O'Clock mount. I have another similar lens which came on its own. Your lens would appear to be a later one because it has a serial number. I would be interested about what Jerzy has to say about the number. My understanding is that the bell push lenses were only around for a short time, but yours could be one that had been converted to a 7 O'Clock lens. To be truthful, the 11 O'Clock bell push lenses are not as nice to use as ones with 7 O'Clock mounts even with the II Model D which has no slow speed dial, so a conversion would not be a surprise. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! William  Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! William  ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/280334-black-leica-iiis-with-chrome/?do=findComment&comment=4004749'>More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted July 6, 2020 Share #71  Posted July 6, 2020 Here's my IA-II conversion, also 1929, with lens I found later - no serial but standardized. It's far from pristine, with wear, brassing, retouching, and dents, but so am I. It still works, while I'm retired. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/280334-black-leica-iiis-with-chrome/?do=findComment&comment=4004772'>More sharing options...
Rick in CO Posted July 6, 2020 Share #72  Posted July 6, 2020 10 hours ago, jerzy said: As William wrote nickel. Beautiful camera, in my opinion, in original, unrestored condition (as fas as i can judge the black paint based on the photo). I believe as well that Elmar has not been re-nickeled, the camera was simply rarely used. Barrels on Elmars were plated more shiny that other elements and it was dust which made them less shiny (extracting and retracting). Btw, if I am correct, it could one of the first Elmars with 7 oclock mount, it was about SN 143xxx when the transition from 11 oclock was. At least the lens which I inspected with SN 143610 was 7 oclock in original condition Thank You Jerzy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted July 7, 2020 Share #73  Posted July 7, 2020 vor 23 Stunden schrieb JohnW.: I have a Nickel Elmar with SN 1333xx with 7 o'clock mount, I think this dates from 1931. Could this have been a later conversion? The lens has a standardize '0" mark John, as William wrote lens is not original (converted) from the camera, it would have been without serial number. Was it original 7 oclock? As mentioned on other occasion I believe that switch from 11 to 7 oclock mount was around 143xxx, but this is based on my observations and not on factory records. I tend to believe that your lens might have been converted from 11 oclock, serial is a bit too low for 7 oclock. Btw, the date of camera conversion (1933/34) seem to be correct basedd on external features of camera) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted July 7, 2020 Share #74  Posted July 7, 2020 vor 20 Stunden schrieb willeica: For Jerzy's opinion. William, I am pretty sure that your both Elmars have not been re-plated, they have a very nice nickel coating which is a bit more yellowish than new coating. However the ultimate prove if re-coated requires disassembly of lens, inspection of inner surface and inner threads. But whatever - both look great! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted July 7, 2020 Share #75  Posted July 7, 2020 1 minute ago, jerzy said: William, I am pretty sure that your both Elmars have not been re-plated, they have a very nice nickel coating which is a bit more yellowish than new coating. However the ultimate prove if re-coated requires disassembly of lens, inspection of inner surface and inner threads. But whatever - both look great! Thanks Jerzy. When they are together, one of them looks 'too good' compared to the other. The bodies are both what you would expect and at this stage I would spot a repaint, although this is more difficult from a photo. But a re-plated nickel job is very hard to tell. I bought both cameras from reliable sources and I have shown the engraved one to experts like Jim Lager and Lars Netopil as a similar example appeared in Denis Laney's 'Collector's Guide' book. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnW. Posted July 7, 2020 Share #76  Posted July 7, 2020 3 hours ago, jerzy said: John, as William wrote lens is not original (converted) from the camera, it would have been without serial number. Was it original 7 oclock? As mentioned on other occasion I believe that switch from 11 to 7 oclock mount was around 143xxx, but this is based on my observations and not on factory records. I tend to believe that your lens might have been converted from 11 oclock, serial is a bit too low for 7 oclock. Btw, the date of camera conversion (1933/34) seem to be correct basedd on external features of camera) Thank you for this information Jerzy and William, it confirms my own thoughts about this camera and lens. I assumed the lens was not the original as the serial (1931?) is too early to have been part of the camera conversion in 1933/4, so therefore I have 1A converted to a ll in 1933/4 with a period appropriate lens which most likely was converted from 11 o'clock to 7 o'clock. I guess it is possible the lens conversion took place at the same time as the camera but also possible that the lens joined with the camera anytime in the past 80 years. Thanks again for your interesting comments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
172Photo Posted January 31, 2022 Share #77  Posted January 31, 2022 On 12/29/2017 at 11:51 AM, alan mcfall said: Earliest Bl/Cr I have recorded is a STD, 193358. The earliest 1936 Bl /Cr lot for the model 3 is 194301-650, I have camera 194524. In 1936 I estamate that 1800 Bl/Cr model III cameras were made.  1000 in 1937, 700 in 1938 and 300 in 1939l.  Black paint was falling out in favor of all chrome. I have never recorded a 1935 black and chrome camera. A few Black and nickle cameras were made in 1936, but almost none in 37, 38 and 39. Approximately 3800-4000 model III Black and Chrome cameras were made. About the same for the E or STD, and only 2500 for the model II. As chrome cameras were available from 1933, I think Leitz waited until late 1935 or early 1936 to produce Bl and chrome cameras, as at that time so much production of chrome hardware was taking place, it just didn't make sense to continue to produce nickle. Having both plating systems would have been somewhat expensive. Many lament the loss of Black and Nickle as they regard it as better looking. If anyone has an original Black and Chrome camera under serial 193201, it would be interesting.I have 25+ B/Cr cameras and a database of about 200 listings. Always looking for new and better information.  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
172Photo Posted January 31, 2022 Share #78  Posted January 31, 2022 I have a Leica iii Chrom serial 161941 dating 1935 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/280334-black-leica-iiis-with-chrome/?do=findComment&comment=4372673'>More sharing options...
Erik van Straten Posted February 1, 2022 Share #79  Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) I like it when the "D.R.P." inscription is made between "Leica" and "Ernst Leitz" and not under "Wetzlar". I don't know at wich number the change is made. I have such a camera. Heavily used, but still superb. I think it was professionally used. I like it too when the slow times knob has click stops. Erik.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 1, 2022 by Erik van Straten Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/280334-black-leica-iiis-with-chrome/?do=findComment&comment=4373396'>More sharing options...
romualdo Posted February 1, 2022 Share #80  Posted February 1, 2022 my recent III acquisition - both camera (1933 - second batch?) & lens (1932? 7pm Nickle Elmar) - there's something so aesthetically pleasing (to me) about old black paint/nickle Leicas Back in the day ('30s) did you buy a camera/lens unit as one piece or were they purchased separately (referring to standard 5cm lenses) Is there any way of ascertaining whether the lens was purchased with the camera (matched pair) - contacting Leica? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/280334-black-leica-iiis-with-chrome/?do=findComment&comment=4373447'>More sharing options...
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