Any enthusiasm for the upcoming 1.25/75mm Noctilux?

[lct]

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So do you think CoC values should be different when i use Sony A7s (12MP) and A7r2 (42MP) bodies with the same lenses?

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[mdemeyer]

Acceptable CoC to realize the extra resolution of the sensor, absolutely yes. There is plenty of literature on this point. Here's a place to simplify the calculations of DoF:

 

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

[lct]

Acceptable CoC to realize the extra resolution of the sensor, absolutely yes. There is plenty of literature on this point. Here's a place to simplify the calculations of DoF:

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

 

This site shows that CoC values depend on film or sensor size and not on pixel count if i remember well but i may be wrong.

[mdemeyer]

Sensor includes resolution in the calculation, hence many choices for the same size sensor.

[Jennifer]

Without wishing to take anything from all the learned, technical comments above, does any of it actually matter?? For me, more to the point is 1: will it be any easier to focus a 75mm Noctilux wide open than my 75mm Lux, and 2: will lugging it around for a few hours result in less neck/shoulder ache as compared with it's slower bedfellow? If those questions sound a tad benal please just put it down to female vapidity, ignore me and go back to your discussion lads

[lct]

Sensor includes resolution in the calculation, hence many choices for the same size sensor.

 

CoC values are the same on 12MP and 42MP 35mm cameras as i understand it, hence my questions.

[lct]

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[...] will it be any easier to focus a 75mm Noctilux wide open than my 75mm Lux [...]

 

Can only be more difficult on the same rangefinder IMHO.

[jlindstrom]

LCT: It depends [emoji6]

 

If one’s problem with the 75 Summilux is the long focus throw, then a more modern lens might be easier to focus...

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[lct]

[...] If one’s problem with the 75 Summilux is the long focus throw, then a more modern lens might be easier to focus... [...]

 

Faster certainly but more accurate i don't think so.

Edited September 25, 2017 by lct

[01af]

So do you think circle-of-confusion values should be different when I use Sony A7S (12 MP) and A7R Mk II (42 MP) bodies with the same lenses?

No, of course not, as both sensors are the same size.

 

 

... circle-of-confusion values depend on film or sensor size and not on pixel count ...[/size]

Exactly.

 

 

Will it be any easier to focus a 75 mm Noctilux wide open than my 75 mm Summilux?

Most likely not. To the contrary, it will be harder, as the focus throw probably will be shorter.

 

 

Will lugging it around for a few hours result in less neck/shoulder ache as compared with its slower bedfellow?

Most likely not. To the contrary, it will result in more ache, as the weight probably will be higher.

[scott kirkpatrick]

C'mon, a Karbe 75 Noctilux will produce pictures that look different from a Mandler 80 R/75 M.  Crisper across the field with fantastic midrange contrast and tone separation.  And we'll all take sides and throw eggs at the believers in the opposite approach while in reality stopping each down to f/4 so that the ears and the tip of the nose don't come out so blurry.

Edited September 25, 2017 by scott kirkpatrick

[adan]

On the question of focus throw - a short focus throw makes for faster, but less precise focusing, as 01af says. The analogy is - I draw a white line across a street, and send you up the street 100 meters/yards, and ask you to drive back to the line and stop with your front tires precisely on the line (correct focus point) with one application of your brakes. Will you find that easier to do speeding down the street at 60 miles per hour (short, fast focus throw) or creeping the distance at 10 miles per hour (long, slow focus throw)?

 

A 75mm f/1.2 will almost certainly have a long focus throw anyway. Simple matter of mass and acceleration. The shorter the focus throw, the more rapidly your fingers have to move the mass of the lens. There's a reason the f/1.4 has such a long focus throw to begin with - so that simple fingertip pressure can move its 550 grams without strain (a little at a time). A 75 f/1.2 will be even more massive - and have at least as long a throw to move perhaps 650g with fingertip pressure - unless Leica has forgotten everything it once knew about ergonomics. (Ergonomics coming from the Greek for "work" or "effort".)

[jlindstrom]

Faster certainly but more accurate i don't think so.

True, but it depends what easier means - for some it might be more precise, for me the problem was always slow focus ie. I couldn’t focus fast enough for any moving target. Thus for me faster focus would have been easier.

 

Hence: It depends. [emoji41]

[IkarusJohn]

Without wishing to take anything from all the learned, technical comments above, does any of it actually matter?? For me, more to the point is 1: will it be any easier to focus a 75mm Noctilux wide open than my 75mm Lux, and 2: will lugging it around for a few hours result in less neck/shoulder ache as compared with it's slower bedfellow? If those questions sound a tad benal please just put it down to female vapidity, ignore me and go back to your discussion lads

Hi Jennifer,

 

The depth of field comparison does matter (leaving aside the rather endless discussion about circles of confusion) as it will affect your aperture selection and hit rate.

 

(1) will it be easier to focus than your 75 Summilux? Probably about the same. As Andy says above, the longer focus throw of the 50 Noctilux 0.95 and the 75 Summilux makes precise focussing much easier than, say, the 75 Summicron APO.

 

(2) my guess is a 75 Noctilux will be significantly bigger an heavier than either the 75 Summilux or the 50 Noctilux.

 

Will that be worth it? Well, that will depend on whether or not you like Noctilux images, with the smooth out of focus treatment, but in 75mm field of view. The comparison between the 50 Noctilux and 50 APO might be relevant when comparing the 75 Noctilux to the 75 APO.

 

Cheers

John

[Michael Geschlecht]

On the question of focus throw - a short focus throw makes for faster, but less precise focusing, as 01af says. The analogy is - I draw a white line across a street, and send you up the street 100 meters/yards, and ask you to drive back to the line and stop with your front tires precisely on the line (correct focus point) with one application of your brakes. Will you find that easier to do speeding down the street at 60 miles per hour (short, fast focus throw) or creeping the distance at 10 miles per hour (long, slow focus throw)?

 

A 75mm f/1.2 will almost certainly have a long focus throw anyway. Simple matter of mass and acceleration. The shorter the focus throw, the more rapidly your fingers have to move the mass of the lens. There's a reason the f/1.4 has such a long focus throw to begin with - so that simple fingertip pressure can move its 550 grams without strain (a little at a time). A 75 f/1.2 will be even more massive - and have at least as long a throw to move perhaps 650g with fingertip pressure - unless Leica has forgotten everything it once knew about ergonomics. (Ergonomics coming from the Greek for "work" or "effort".)

 

Hello Andy,

 

Agreed.

 

Altho I would prefer that the 135mm, F4 Tele-Elmar had the longer focus throw (And tripod attachment point.) that its longer & lighter 135mm, F4 Elmar predecessor does.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[mdemeyer]

CoC might be the same (a function of the lens) but the CoC needs to be smaller to get the performance possible with a small pixel pitch sensor. I think my previous post was unclear as to what I was trying to say.

 

CoC values are the same on 12MP and 42MP 35mm cameras as i understand it, hence my questions.

[lct]

I don't think CoC depends on pixel pitch either but again (and again) i may be wrong. CoC is smaller on smaller sensors, it is a matter of sensor or film size plus viewing distance, magnification, visual acuity and perhaps other factors i'm not aware of.

[otto.f]

(2) my guess is a 75 Noctilux will be significantly bigger an heavier than either the 75 Summilux or the 50 Noctilux.

 

Cheers

John

I'm curious how Leica calculated this because this would mean more obstruction of view through the rangefinder. So then SL owners will say again: nice for my SL, not for my M. But: in a few months the 75/2.0 for the SL comes out, with a shorter closest distance than the 75Noct, so why not wait for that.

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[IkarusJohn]

I'm curious how Leica calculated this because this would mean more obstruction of view through the rangefinder. So then SL owners will say again: nice for my SL, not for my M. But: in a few months the 75/2.0 for the SL comes out, with a shorter closest distance than the 75Noct, so why not wait for that.

 

 

I agree entirely.

 

I'm sticking to my 75 Summilux for the foreseeable future.  I would be tempted by an SL prime, but I'm not sure which as I have M mount primes from 21-75.  I really like the look of the images from the 50 Summilux-SL, but I really don't see the point.  As mentioned above, I can see why Leica would release a 75 Noctilux in M mount - Karbe isn't a fan of the Mandler lens and the 75 APO Summicron has been around a while.  Wouldn't there be more demand for a 35 Noctilux? it would be smaller, with less obstruction and it's a more popular focal length (apparently).

[graphlex]

On the question of focus throw - a short focus throw makes for faster, but less precise focusing, as 01af says. The analogy is - I draw a white line across a street, and send you up the street 100 meters/yards, and ask you to drive back to the line and stop with your front tires precisely on the line (correct focus point) with one application of your brakes. Will you find that easier to do speeding down the street at 60 miles per hour (short, fast focus throw) or creeping the distance at 10 miles per hour (long, slow focus throw)?

 

A 75mm f/1.2 will almost certainly have a long focus throw anyway. Simple matter of mass and acceleration. The shorter the focus throw, the more rapidly your fingers have to move the mass of the lens. There's a reason the f/1.4 has such a long focus throw to begin with - so that simple fingertip pressure can move its 550 grams without strain (a little at a time). A 75 f/1.2 will be even more massive - and have at least as long a throw to move perhaps 650g with fingertip pressure - unless Leica has forgotten everything it once knew about ergonomics. (Ergonomics coming from the Greek for "work" or "effort".)

The 135 Elmarit-M, the heavyweight champ of the Ms, is only a little more than 650g.

 

It has an extremely long throw, which confirms Andy’s point about throw-weight.