Guest VVJ Posted July 11, 2017 Share #41 Posted July 11, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I believe this is a worthwhile and very solid upgrade to the Leica T/TL and I put in my pre-order. For me personally it is the faster body, better high ISO (2 stops according to Jono) and focus peaking that convinced me. In addition to the excellent native AF lenses the abilty to ahoot lightweight M lenses on the lightweight TL2 body with focus peaking seems very attractive. I can do that on the SL as well but the SL body is about 450g heavier. That being said, no built-in EVF and no EVF at all when using flash will mean that a lot of people will definitely say no to this camera. Something to think about Leica.... I liked Jono's conclusion in his review and I also would like to see a APS-C mini SL type of body in addition to the current TL2 body. I would probably buy both. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest VVJ Posted July 11, 2017 Share #42 Posted July 11, 2017 I got a SL to replace a M240, but couldn’t let the M go. Maybe the SL might be swapped with the TL2... My guess would be that you end up with M240, SL and TL2... jonoslack 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jshyshka Posted July 11, 2017 Share #43 Posted July 11, 2017 Just ordered mine - I have 5 TL lenses and the viewfinder - just the 24 meg sensor and the extra speed is worth the upgrade for me (the 24 meg made a big difference on my Fuji Pro 2 - people bitched about that camera also). I have an M 240 also, but this is a great travel camera and I can also use my M lenses on it. Bottom line - buy whatever you think you need or want and then go out and SHOOT SOME PICTURES - sometimes I think people spend more time on forums arguing about a camera's worth rather than shooting pictures Hello guest! Please register or sign in to view the hidden content. Hallo Gast! Du willst die Bilder sehen? Einfach registrieren oder anmelden! . Volbeat, Louis, LAHilltop and 4 others 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheHobbit Posted July 11, 2017 Share #44 Posted July 11, 2017 Just a question... does the focus peaking show on the external evf? If yes... looks like I am on my third T.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rpopescu Posted July 11, 2017 Share #45 Posted July 11, 2017 Just a question... does the focus peaking show on the external evf? If yes... looks like I am on my third T.... It would be incredibly weird if it didn't. To answer my own question about focus peaking with M lenses: I didn't know how focus peaking works (I thought it might work only with electronically-enabled lenses where the body and the lens communicate), but apparently it's just an edge detection algorithm so it will work with any lens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaapv Posted July 11, 2017 Share #46 Posted July 11, 2017 Focus peaking appears to me to be a bit overhyped. Yes, it can be practical in a quick-and-dirty type of way, but especially with fast primes accuracy is not as good as magnification and the use of one's eye. jonoslack, Belle123 and frame-it 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rpopescu Posted July 11, 2017 Share #47 Posted July 11, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Focus peaking appears to me to be a bit overhyped. Yes, it can be practical in a quick-and-dirty type of way, but especially with fast primes accuracy is not as good as magnification and the use of one's eye. I respectfully disagree based on my own experience. What works for me might not for you, of course, so having said that... I regularly use a T, an M3, and a Q, and I only have M mount lenses for the M3 and the T - all primes, and the slowest is a 2.8 90mm. Overall I prefer the M3's optical viewfinder. Next up is the Q due to its refresh rate and the focus peaking. On the T I use the monochromatic JPEG settings with high contrast which makes a sort of over-sharpen effect at the focus point, but it's not quite as good as on the Q. Also, there's nothing dirty about it, but it certainly might be quicker Hello guest! Please register or sign in to view the hidden content. Hallo Gast! Du willst die Bilder sehen? Einfach registrieren oder anmelden! : since we use our eyes to judge where the focus is based on the image sharpness, the focus peaking, based on edge detection, is just an aid to seeing where those edges appear a bit faster. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imants Posted July 11, 2017 Share #48 Posted July 11, 2017 Focus peaking is ants pants of focusing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaapv Posted July 11, 2017 Share #49 Posted July 11, 2017 I use focus peaking on various cameras;a Sony A7, a Panasonic GX8 (excellent OLED EVF) and the M240 EVF. Of the three the M240 is the most accurate, but extremely subtle, not functional on low contrast lenses and normal focal lengths, the Panasonic is the best compromise and the Sony is horridly overdone and inaccurate. But all of them need to be "walked" through the plane of focus to get spot-on focus. As I said, the most accurate results are with magnification, focus peaking is effective for somewhat faster styles of photography with less defined planes of focus in my experience. Belle123 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter H Posted July 11, 2017 Share #50 Posted July 11, 2017 If it had a built-in viewfinder I might have been interested. Jkulin 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 11, 2017 Share #51 Posted July 11, 2017 Focus peaking is not everyone's cuppa … efficiency likely depends on an individual's eyesight … I cannot focus accurately / consistently with focus peaking … prefer LV magnification. dunk jaapv, Louis and Belle123 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tritentrue Posted July 11, 2017 Share #52 Posted July 11, 2017 Using the Visoflex 020, the TL2's magnification provides unmistakable visual cues for achieving critically accurate focus. microview 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rpopescu Posted July 11, 2017 Share #53 Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) I don't know why this has become a debate on who likes focus peaking, where, and how much Hello guest! Please register or sign in to view the hidden content. Hallo Gast! Du willst die Bilder sehen? Einfach registrieren oder anmelden! - to each his own. I just wanted to know whether it worked with M mount lenses on the TL2 (with the EVF) - and it does. And of course, it's optional, so those that don't want it don't have to put up with it, right? Edited July 11, 2017 by rpopescu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
earleygallery Posted July 11, 2017 Share #54 Posted July 11, 2017 The new TL appears to be basically the same camera minus the flash but with a higher MP sensor. People who already love the TL will like it but I'm not sure that's enough to entice many new customers. Disappointing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LocalHero1953 Posted July 11, 2017 Share #55 Posted July 11, 2017 The T has always tempted me since launch. I find it attractive as an object, I like the interface, and I've never doubted the image quality. AF is probably good enough. What held me back was what I considered to be a poor EVF, by which I mean: - flicker/lag with moving subjects. - black out after the shot. - an add-on that looks clunky and would catch in straps, bags etc. The SL EVF is a great size that I wouldn't expect to be squeezed into the TL2, OTOH its minimal lag and blackout should be achievable. From all accounts so far, the TL2 is not quite at the SL's level of lag and blackout i.e. they are still noticeable, but much better. It makes me think that it is the Viso itself which is the bottleneck - perhaps we can expect a new one (for the TL2 and the M10) somewhere in the near future. I will look at the TL2 to see how it performs in the hand, but I think my expectations and aspirations for such a camera are changing, in its favour. I have the SL for what I could call "photographic occasions" - portrait sessions, events etc - where size, weight and portability are not particularly important. I also have the M240 for travel and social occasions. But in Jono Slack's review I noted the style of shooting he used it for: sometimes one-handed, casual, street, on-the-fly, the sort of stuff you might use a phone for. I can't do one-handed with the M240 without risk of tendonitis, and I need two hands at least to set up a smartphone even if I can then use it one handed. I suspect the TL might be quicker to set up and use than a phone - though bigger. I also note that this sort of use doesn't require an EVF, which is a bonus. So I am starting to see the TL2 in terms of a "use scenario", which is definitely more smartphone than camera club. But my susceptibility to Leica's marketing and Jono's review is moderated by the following line in his conclusions, which I have also long believed to be the case: "They have developed a wonderful platform from which they can branch out in the future. I would love to see an APS-C mini SL, and another with analogue controls like the Q." What variants of the TL2 might be down the line, and how soon? Maybe I should just wait - after all, I don't need the TL2, do I? Another factor that just happens to have turned up is that my own phone is failing, and the Huawei P10 is a prime candidate as a replacement. Maybe I should stick to Leica's favourite phone for phone-style shooting, rather than something a lot bigger and more expensive. bencoyote, IkarusJohn and jonoslack 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheHobbit Posted July 11, 2017 Share #56 Posted July 11, 2017 I don't know why this has become a debate on who likes focus peaking, where, and how much Hello guest! Please register or sign in to view the hidden content. Hallo Gast! Du willst die Bilder sehen? Einfach registrieren oder anmelden! - to each his own. I just wanted to know whether it worked with M mount lenses on the TL2 (with the EVF) - and it does. And of course, it's optional, so those that don't want it don't have to put up with it, right? Looks like its a trip to the Leica dealers..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
noshtalja Posted July 11, 2017 Share #57 Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) For those like me who have made the journey and decided to upgrade,then given the prices on offer for an original T it seems better if ypu can afford it to keep the T as a second body. Also you have an extra battery and charger, snd the flash option if you need it.My T was more an indulgence with DSlr being mainstream, but with the TL2 I feel this camera can now become mainstream except for action maybe, and so a second body is useful - especially if you have shelled out for several lenses. Edited July 11, 2017 by noshtalja Daedalus2000, jonoslack and Volbeat 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steppenw0lf Posted July 11, 2017 Share #58 Posted July 11, 2017 Hmmm. 24 MP at the APS-C size scales up to 36 MP at full frame. I wonder when that will come along. I am kinda intrigued. For video with the SL, I've gotten copies of all three T zooms. Maybe I should get in line for the camera they were designed for. Does the TL2 video (or T/TL for that matter) come with an L-Log profiile? scott Sorry, but I think you are wrong: The factor is 1.5, so the sensor equals/scales up to about 1.5x1.5x24MP which is more than 50 MP in a FF sensor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steppenw0lf Posted July 11, 2017 Share #59 Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) I think the EVF is rather good - maybe one would like more resolution, but that's equal to most other mirrorless (including Sony and Olympus). But it has a nice big screen and unlike most other cameras it isn't too contrasty. Better than the one in the Q I reckon. It would be nice to have one like the SL, but then it would be as big as a frankenfinder! best Sorry, but maybe I am too clumsy. The body is too small for a comfortable grip (imagine the 90-280 lens). And then the external viewfinder - a combination that is tragic. Flexible, but not really gaining anything. I thought it could make an interesting second body with a crop factor (a companion to the SL). But at the moment I am not convinced at all. I don't like cameras built for design or for "being small". The target "being small" is meaningless by itself - there needs to be a different reason for it. A slightly larger body with larger/better grip, more powerful battery and internal EVF would have been my favorite. (No, of course I did not expect it to be like that). The camera looks nice (design for managers), but is not useful (or only with the smallest lenses). It looks very much like the typical manager toys lately often built from aluminum. (Porsche design). (Sorry, in my eyes this trend is already dead now, so rather for retired managers. It reminds me too much of the M Leicas from the Hermes program. Or the valuable "apple" Leica - designed by the apple designer (Jonathan Ive)) Sorry if I am too negative - more friendly: It is a consumer camera, not a photographers camera. For owners of S the SL is a valuable companion, that can reuse the lenses. (Both are built for work.) I hoped to use the combination of SL and TL2 in that way. (the new sensor looks promising) But the "design" of the TL2 makes it difficult to use it for anything involving "serious photography/work". Edited July 11, 2017 by steppenw0lf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Learner Posted July 11, 2017 Share #60 Posted July 11, 2017 steppenwolf... Have you looked at some of the wonderful shots taken by some of the photographers in the T / TL section of l-camera-forum.com? Yup, many, perhaps most, are not gems, but perhaps you''re being a tad dismissive / haughty. rpopescu 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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