tsleica Posted June 23, 2017 Share #41 Posted June 23, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry to hear you dropped the cam.. I've often thought about that when buying expensive stuff..what happens when it is dropped..lost... stolen..or otherwise compromised.. And... what kind of company am I dealing with..as in..can they repair it within a reasonable time frame..and if overseas..shipping back and forth etc..and..will they do a good job.. This has kept me from buying certain types of cams as I just couldn't see dealing with all of that..if something happened.. If you get if fixed..you are in for about 10K and long waiting times..and maybe further problems down the road..but hopefully will have a nice beater that you wont care about marking up etc.. Probably best to just get a new cam if all this is going to bother you..and be into it for 14K and call it a day..if the expenditure is worth it.. As to me..I would probably look for cheaper alternative bodies..and live w/o the rangefinder.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 Hi tsleica, Take a look here Seriously Worried about my M10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pgk Posted June 23, 2017 Share #42 Posted June 23, 2017 For that money I'd want to know: will it look like new again? Will they replace every damaged part including cosmetic damage (chips/dents etc) with new parts? Obviously minor scratches or wear and tear not associated with the drop being excluded. My M9 could have the top replaced as it is badly dented but for €700 to do so. It stays dented. But physical, cosmetic damage is expensive to correct because generally it requires substantial replacement parts such as top plate, body shell, base plate and so on. For £3000 I would expect the camera to appear almost as new, which I am sure that it will. Another story. A long time ago I dropped (well actually a camera bag failed but that's another story) and dumped an M8 with 50/1.4 and 24/2.8 lenses onto concrete from about a meter high. The 50/1.4 focus was stiffer than it had been but showed only the smallest of marks, the M8 worked fine but rattled and showed no sign whatsoever of the drop, and the 24/2.8 seemed ok. All went to Leica. The 24/2.8 needed no work at all as it was fine (and subsequently proved to be so), the M8 was repaired for free as it had apparently suffered nothing of significance, something had just come loose and the 50/1.4 was insured but cost £450 to sort out. ALL worked flawlessly after their return and continued to do so until they were traded a good time later on. I have no qualms about the repairs Leica have carried out for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted June 23, 2017 Share #43 Posted June 23, 2017 If the camera is beyond viable repair, Leica will say so. If they say it can be repaired, there's little reason to doubt them. I've had horribly damaged cameras and lenses repaired by Leica - and other manufacturers - without encountering any subsequent issues. The quoted repair price is high, but substantially lower than the price of a new camera. I'd authorise them to go ahead, expecting it to be returned as new. If there are any further problems relating to the repairs then I'm sure Leica will unhesitatingly deal with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted June 23, 2017 Share #44 Posted June 23, 2017 ......I'm trying to get Leica to see sense but at the moment, no response. Needless to say, I am worried and not at all happy. I've never had a problem with Leica before, going back to the 1980s, but this is seriously shaking my confidence. I think the niggle in the back of your mind answers most of your questions. Even if your camera is returned fully functional and cosmetically repaired, it's going to take some time for your confidence in it to be restored, if at all, and Leica's attitude to your concerns does nothing to reinforce confidence. Five years ago and for the first time ever in my life as a photographer since 1972, I dropped a Nikon D4 with a 24-70 f2.8 lens from hip height whilst working. I missed my Spider Holster after 1000's of cycles of attaching and detaching cameras without thinking about it and the D4 and lens fell onto a carpeted floor, snapping the Nikon 24-70G lens in two and distorting the camera body lens mount Both camera and lens were repaired by Fixation and were returned calibrated and in as new condition with no sign of the damage they had both suffered. I tested the camera and lens over and over again before my next job and everything worked perfectly and without a problem - except for that niggle in the back of my mind and I did not use it again. I sold both the camera and the lens shortly after. I don't know what you photograph or if you photograph for fun or for income, but if you are left with any doubts about the integrity of your camera that will affect your enjoyment or confidence when using it, then I would say get rid of it and replace it with the same or something else after it is sorted out. You've said yourself that it's only a camera, and that's the point. Despite that silly red dot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted June 23, 2017 Share #45 Posted June 23, 2017 ...I've often thought about that when buying expensive stuff..what happens when it is dropped..lost... stolen..or otherwise compromised.. ... I thought about this once upon a time on another incident. I made a decision then and have stuck by it ever since. The incident happened when I was moving. A bunch of friends came by on moving day to give me a hand and everything was going well. My prize recently purchased possession at that time was a Pioneer Elite series LaserDisc player ... hideously expensive for what I was making at that time, but I so enjoyed the movies when played through it compared to anything in a tape machine. So my buddy puts it on top of the cart and rolls the cart up the patch to the new apartment entrance. At the entrance, the cart's leading wheels get stuck in the door sill for a moment and my hyper expensive, high-precision player machine slid off the cart, flipped, and fell four feet down onto concrete. When I picked it up, the loose sound of broken bits rattled around inside it. The decision on how to act, what to do, took an eternity compressed into a tenth of a second. My friend Richard was looking at me with those big eyes saying, "Oh cripes, what have I done?...!" I couldn't bring myself to get angry, as for some help, etc. I just picked it up and put it back on the cart, said to Rich, "No matter, it'll be fine," and continued on with getting my stuff upstairs into the apartment. I could hear the sigh and relief in his mind and body. Afterwards, I picked up the player and put it in the dumpster downstairs, drove over to the nearby electronics emporium, and bought another. Rich never knew what happened other than that the player had hit the dust. Cost me another $1200 and I ate ramen noodles for a month or so. But the player is only a thing, and I prefer that things don't own me; I own them. I would rather thank my friends for giving me a helping hand than give them hell for making a mistake and costing me money. Other events of a similar nature have happened over time, regardless how careful I am and how I try to look out. It's somewhat inevitable and up to how the gods want to play with your mind. How you respond is up to you ... I think the mantra, "things don't own me, i own them" is a very nice little piece to have in my head whenever stuff like this happen. Always choose life, not things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 23, 2017 Share #46 Posted June 23, 2017 The card's OK. It works perfectly. Yes, it might have been a temporary issue just affecting the files on the card at the time of the impact, but Leica's diagnosis doesn't agree, so something is wrong somewhere. The least likely explanation seems to be Leica's. Agreed. A worry, however, is that I'll spend £3,000 on a repair to get a camera back that hasn't been fixed, and will need to go back to them again, and still won't get looked at properly until they're convinced that the FW update won't solve everything. Not the sort of attention I'd expect in a £3,000 repair job. I'd like them to look at it properly now, and not guess at what the problem may be. I see this as a Calimero worry. In my experience Leica CS returns repairs in a perfect condition. In the unlikely event that it should not be the case, you will still have a solid guarantee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 23, 2017 Share #47 Posted June 23, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) [...] In my experience Leica CS returns repairs in a perfect condition. In the unlikely event that it should not be the case, you will still have a solid guarantee. Exactly but if the OP prefers selling the body at scrap value i might be interested . Just kidding Peter but not that much. I would not spend the big bucks for an M10 but i would gladly pay GBP 3000 for a mint refurbished body with a full Leica guarantee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 23, 2017 Share #48 Posted June 23, 2017 You send the camera in for repair. When it's returned if it doesn't work just the same as any other M10 then Leica haven't repaired it properly and it's their problem to put it right. That's how I'd see it anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted June 23, 2017 Share #49 Posted June 23, 2017 Truly sorry to hear about your mishap Peter. I certainly hope you are made whole on way or another. I was waffling about buying yet another RRS grip, but your sad story moved me to order one. It certainly wont save me in all circumstances, but from experience, I've found that an aluminum exoskeleton can be better than nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 23, 2017 Share #50 Posted June 23, 2017 If the camera is beyond viable repair, Leica will say so. Oh, did they? I think not when the repair is 50% to 60% the retail price. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 23, 2017 Share #51 Posted June 23, 2017 Depends on the definition of "viable" I should think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 23, 2017 Share #52 Posted June 23, 2017 Sorry to hear, Peter, if your insurance doesn't reimburse fully, even at replacement cost, I would suggest investigating a better policy. That might not be viable in your location, which would be unfortunate, but personal valuable riders in the US are common, and high end insurers wouldn't blink at making you whole. Good luck whatever you do. And hopefully Leica will restore confidence soon. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted June 24, 2017 Share #53 Posted June 24, 2017 Oh, did they? I think not when the repair is 50% to 60% the retail price. . Peter currently owns a piece of non-functional scrap. Paying 60% of the retail price to restore it to the level of a new M10 seems viable to me. If Peter authorises the repair at the quoted £3000 and doesn't subsequently feel comfortable with the camera I'll happily pay him £3050 for it with every confidence it will work perfectly. Cameras get broken all the time and manufacturers fix them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anickpick Posted June 24, 2017 Share #54 Posted June 24, 2017 Peter currently owns a piece of non-functional scrap. Paying 60% of the retail price to restore it to the level of a new M10 seems viable to me. If Peter authorises the repair at the quoted £3000 and doesn't subsequently feel comfortable with the camera I'll happily pay him £3050 for it with every confidence it will work perfectly. Cameras get broken all the time and manufacturers fix them. I increase the bid: £3075 Seriously: Peter, I also would authorize the repair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share #55 Posted June 24, 2017 Thanks again for all the nice messages.But the offers to buy the camera sort of illustrate the problem. Before the accident I could have sold the camera for around £4000 say, probably a fair bit more. Now, I can pay £3000 to have it repaired and sell it for £3,075. ( A smiley face would feel appropriate at this point.) So I'd still be down over £5,000: £8600 (purchase plus repair) - £3075 = £5,525. Even if I recover £3000 from the insurance company I'd be £2,500 down, with no camera and an increase in insurance premiums to look forward to.So I'd better authorise the repair and keep the camera. It's the only sensible thing to do. And I don't mean to throw your generosity back at you!Thanks everyone for clarifying things for me! PS: The attached lens only needs a new filter-holder ring and with labour costs will amount to another £300. Quite an expensive little trip to Dundee, but I did get to hear UB40 for free as they were playing live in an open venue directly next to out hotel room, so we just opened the window and enjoyed the post-accident evening. And my broken rib is repairing itself free-of-charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJJon Posted June 24, 2017 Share #56 Posted June 24, 2017 You send the camera in for repair. When it's returned if it doesn't work just the same as any other M10 then Leica haven't repaired it properly and it's their problem to put it right. That's how I'd see it anyway. Is this really the case? It seems Leica is saying that there is specific damage they are going to repair that does not include any card reader repair saying that they believe that issue is software related. If they go on to repair the listed components on the estimate and then find that indeed the SD reader was damaged by the fall, they will just repair the SD reader for free? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share #57 Posted June 24, 2017 Is this really the case? It seems Leica is saying that there is specific damage they are going to repair that does not include any card reader repair saying that they believe that issue is software related. If they go on to repair the listed components on the estimate and then find that indeed the SD reader was damaged by the fall, they will just repair the SD reader for free? Well, this was my original concern. I'm being told they are bound to repair it for free (or strictly, within the terms of the original repair quote) if they mis-diagnose the problem and it comes back working less than perfectly. I shall try to ask them for a direct answer to this question. But I'm still a bit worried that they'll just tell me any processing issues are down to the FW, which, in the exact words of their quote "...should be taken care of with the next firmware update". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted June 24, 2017 Share #58 Posted June 24, 2017 I don't wish to appear insensitive to your predicament, I would hate to be in a similar situation. That being said, the fact is the camera is damaged, you've been given a cost to repair it. I would assume that cost is not fixed, it could go up or down based on what Leica find during the repair. I would also feel comfortable, that during the repair any faults found with the SD card would be remedied perhaps a cost or just a ribbon cable needing re seating. But, if you're like me, I would not feel confident for the long term reliability of the camera in years to come, perhaps due to this accident. Warranty should cover it for a year or 2 but after that, you could be looking at another expensive repair bill. If I had the option I would push to have the camera written off by insurance and purchase a new one financing any policy excess from my pocket. If there were no insurance, I would explore if there is any residual value left on the camera and if Leica would discount a replacement whilst they keep the damaged body. (unlikely) Another option would be to try to sell as is for parts on eBay, likely to yield a poor return. Final option and most likely outcome, is to repair for £3000, pray Leica have replaced all sensitive components and use the camera as intended. I have no doubt the camera will return 100% functional, I'd just have to suck up the consequences of the mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronazle Posted June 24, 2017 Share #59 Posted June 24, 2017 Peter, sorry about the problem but I cannot imagine Leica returning the camera without it being fully functional. Having said that, it is not acceptable that they brushed off the card writing problem in the manner they did. I would feel better if they rendered an apology for taking your information so lightly. They obviously were offering a stock answer for an unusual problem. Best of luck, Ron T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share #60 Posted June 27, 2017 Brief update for everyone kind enough to show an interest: Leica now say they misunderstood the problem with the sensor and will look at it again. Good news, I think. But I wonder whether it might make the repair even more expensive. They promise me a response tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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