New Firmware 3.0

[scott kirkpatrick]

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Fact check -- PAL/SECAM is European, where 50 Hz alternating current is normal, and was broadcast at 50 frames per second (but interlaced, so that the net result was 25 complete frames per second).  Similarly, NTSC (US analog TV) was broadcast at 60 fps interlaced. So that UHD 30 is like digital US (and Asian) TV and UHD 25 to be like European digital TV.  I wonder if the 1/48 shutter speed associated with 24 frames per second was a consequence of the way the old Mitchell cameras worked -- they had a shutter which consisted simply of a disk rotating continuously with slots cut to let light through for each frame, and black out while the film was jerked ahead to the next frame.  Making the slot and the dark part equal size would be a natural design point.  Anyway, I'll try the experiment of shooting C4K 24P and seeing if I can tell 1/25 from 1/50 shutter speeds.

 

I thought I saw UHD at 24P listed on the rumor site as one of the coming features.

 

Next question:  why is the indicated bit rate for the C4K codec @ 24P so much greater than the bit rate for the UHD codecs at 25 and 30P?  And what are the reasons for putting out UHD vs C4K, when they differ in resolution (pixel width) by such a small amount?

 

scott

[Irakly Shanidze]

Yes, you are absolutely correct with respect to PAL and NTSC frame rates. What was I thinking?

 

I don't know why 4K bit rate is so much higher. The discrepancy indeed seems to be way too large for this difference in resolution.

[matnz]

What is the bit rate on C4K? I had thought all the 4K modes were 100Mbps.

[waterman1]

Getting back to the firmware, when does it go live?

[scott kirkpatrick]

What is the bit rate on C4K? I had thought all the 4K modes were 100Mbps.

I was thinking that I read 170 Mbps for C4K, but in re-reading Leica's technical data sheets, I don't find any bit rates quoted for any of the video codecs.

 

scott

[frame-it]

https://www.cinema5d.com/leica-sl-review-part-2-lab-test/

 

 

interesting he says NR starts at iso800

 

 

What is the bit rate on C4K? I had thought all the 4K modes were 100Mbps.

Edited May 26, 2017 by frame-it

[scott kirkpatrick]

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https://www.cinema5d.com/leica-sl-review-part-2-lab-test/

 

 

interesting he says NR starts at iso800

I had not seen the two Christmas 2015 reviews fromCinema 5D, using firmware 1.2, but they are very interesting.  Does the effective data rate show up in one of the standard editing tools?  He does cite 100 Mbps but doesn't say where he determines this.  Has there been a review with any of the 2.x firmwares?

[frame-it]

i tried 4k 24fp today..it shows 94.5Mbps [in quicktime player]..but whats more interesting is her says that the noise reduction kicks off at ISO 800

Edited May 27, 2017 by frame-it

[scott kirkpatrick]

I did the same experiment.  C4K at 24P and UHD at 25P run at about 12 MB/sec.  UHD at 30P generated a few per cent less.  So the thing to remember is that recording 8 bits to the memory chip in the camera will chew up about 720 MB/minute of recording.  Or a 64 GB chip will hold just under 90 minutes.

 

Now trying to see how image quality changes at ISO 320, 1200, 2400, etc...  There was a complaint from the first users back in 2015 (firmware 1.2), that noise compensation was too strong above 800 ISO.  I would have hoped that this had changed.  Maybe it has improved.  I shot the standard pixel-peeping configuration -- a wall of books, camera stable on a monopod clamped to furniture.  Here are screenshots, cropped to half the frame horizontally, first C4K at 1/30 sec, ISO 400, shot at f/4 focused while in still mode when I could magnify:

 

Screen Shot 2017-05-27 at 11.46.55 AM (2) by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

 

and here is the same view shot at 1/320 sec, ISO 4000:

 

Screen Shot 2017-05-27 at 11.51.03 AM (2) by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

 

I see a slight fall off in contrast due to the higher ISO, but little to no change in resolution.

 

scott

[frame-it]

thanks for the quick test

 

 

I did the same experiment.  C4K at 24P and UHD at 25P run at about 12 MB/sec.  UHD at 30P generated a few per cent less.  So the thing to remember is that recording 8 bits to the memory chip in the camera will chew up about 720 MB/minute of recording.  Or a 64 GB chip will hold just under 90 minutes.

 

Now trying to see how image quality changes at ISO 320, 1200, 2400, etc...  There was a complaint from the first users back in 2015 (firmware 1.2), that noise compensation was too strong above 800 ISO.  I would have hoped that this had changed.  Maybe it has improved.  I shot the standard pixel-peeping configuration -- a wall of books, camera stable on a monopod clamped to furniture.  Here are screenshots, cropped to half the frame horizontally, first C4K at 1/30 sec, ISO 400, shot at f/4 focused while in still mode when I could magnify:

 

Screen Shot 2017-05-27 at 11.46.55 AM (2) by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

 

and here is the same view shot at 1/320 sec, ISO 4000:

 

Screen Shot 2017-05-27 at 11.51.03 AM (2) by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

 

I see a slight fall off in contrast due to the higher ISO, but little to no change in resolution.

 

scott

[waterman1]

Wasn't there a list of the firmware updates before the focus of their thread changed? I have gone back to see the list and it disappeared.

[rafikiphoto]

Wasn't there a list of the firmware updates before the focus of their thread changed? I have gone back to see the list and it disappeared.

 

Probably because it violated the NDA which is still in force.

[antigallican]

Wasn't there a list of the firmware updates before the focus of their thread changed? I have gone back to see the list and it disappeared.

Now THAT'S fugitive.

[Fang]

Wasn't there a list of the firmware updates before the focus of their thread changed? I have gone back to see the list and it disappeared.

 

 

Probably because it violated the NDA which is still in force.

 

Yes, there is a NDA.  My sincere apologies to my Leica Supplier who was eager to please me .

 

Getting back to the firmware, when does it go live?

 

It will be live on 31st May 2017.

 

I am excited with the new Firmware.  

 

After carrying the SL, 24-90 and 90-280 to Red Earth Landscape Region, DongChuan, Yunnan, China over the last weekend -  carrying and hanging the camera - now my neck my neck and arms ache,  now I really appreciate my M even more.  However, the SL was really a good performer - to me its a bigger and better version of my DLux 109.

 

A list of hiccups and improvements can be considered:

1. The SL hung up on me on a few occasions while shooting - after a few diagnostic checks I found that my 24-90 lens was not firmly attached to my SL body. 

2. Shooting landscape and low light - its difficult to take the shots since the lens need to be focus while in the auto focus mode in order for the shot to be taken.

3. The Click Wheel can be accidentally click to change the priority mode.  I normally shoot using Aperture Priority Mode but I accidentally click the wheel and it changed to mode to P mode on a no. of occasions.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Fang

[LD_50]

Yes, there is a NDA. My sincere apologies to my Leica Supplier who was eager to please me .

 

 

 

A list of hiccups and improvements can be considered:

1. The SL hung up on me on a few occasions while shooting - after a few diagnostic checks I found that my 24-90 lens was not firmly attached to my SL body.

2. Shooting landscape and low light - its difficult to take the shots since the lens need to be focus while in the auto focus mode in order for the shot to be taken.

3. The Click Wheel can be accidentally click to change the priority mode. I normally shoot using Aperture Priority Mode but I accidentally click the wheel and it changed to mode to P mode on a no. of occasions.

1. Good point, I've had the same with a Nikon lens and dirty contacts.

 

2. With the SL in low light and landscape I've used manual focus exclusively. I'm not understanding the need for AF mentioned.

 

3. I've encountered the opposite here. I've never accidentally changed modes and have read complaints that new users (who don't read the manual) can't figure out how to change modes.

[LocalHero1953]

Yes, there is a NDA.  My sincere apologies to my Leica Supplier who was eager to please me .

 

 

It will be live on 31st May 2017.

 

I am excited with the new Firmware.  

 

After carrying the SL, 24-90 and 90-280 to Red Earth Landscape Region, DongChuan, Yunnan, China over the last weekend -  carrying and hanging the camera - now my neck my neck and arms ache,  now I really appreciate my M even more.  However, the SL was really a good performer - to me its a bigger and better version of my DLux 109.

 

A list of hiccups and improvements can be considered:

1. The SL hung up on me on a few occasions while shooting - after a few diagnostic checks I found that my 24-90 lens was not firmly attached to my SL body. 

2. Shooting landscape and low light - its difficult to take the shots since the lens need to be focus while in the auto focus mode in order for the shot to be taken.

3. The Click Wheel can be accidentally click to change the priority mode.  I normally shoot using Aperture Priority Mode but I accidentally click the wheel and it changed to mode to P mode on a no. of occasions.

3. is something that happens to me - I press the wheel a bit hard while turning it and find I'm changing mode.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

3. is something that happens to me - I press the wheel a bit hard while turning it and find I'm changing mode.

 

Never happened once to me.

 

But now it will since you lot have put the idea into my head...........

 

Gordon

[ramarren]

I've never had any of these problems. For me and my hands, the SL is a perfect fit.

I only pressed the Video-Still mode button accidentally once, since then everything just works.

 

The SL does allow me to appreciate the M-D. And the M-D allows me to appreciate the SL. They complement each other perfectly.

[helged]

3. The Click Wheel can be accidentally click to change the priority mode.  I normally shoot using Aperture Priority Mode but I accidentally click the wheel and it changed to mode to P mode on a no. of occasions.

 

 

Contrary to several of the above comments, this happens on a regular basis for me  . Unintended shifting of the mode can be annoying, but since the viewfinder shows the shooting mode, it is quite quick to cycle back to the intended mode. I would, however, preferred a slightly stiffer pushing of the (rear) click wheel.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[thighslapper]

Ditto, Helged

 

I manage this regularly and end up in 'P' mode which can go unnoticed as the photos superficially appear fine ..... only to find later they have bizarre shutter/F stop combos and unnecessarily high ISO's ..... 

 

It would be nice if there was an audible 'click' when the wheel is pressed in far enough to activate the mode change. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by thighslapper