Leica Ends Free Sensor Replacement for M9/Monochrom Bodies

[Guest]

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John, I can not agree with you.

 

Back then all mods including Andreas were not only showing all cases of M9 sensor corrosion they could find, but were also hard on Leica to have the problem solved.

 

Why do you have a different impression now?

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[IkarusJohn]

Sorry Andreas, none of the above answers the core issue. I've sent you a pm.

[pgk]

FWIW I have 2 x M9s. One has had a new sensor and the other has been checked by Leica Mayfair and was found to be fine. I don't relish the idea of paying out for a new sensor if one is needed but on the other hand doing so and obtaining a serviced and warranted camera (they are guaranteed after service I believe) is not a bad proposition for a camera which if I'm honest has paid its way already. Perhaps I have a different view on gear though, because I look on it as a user. My M9s's now owe me nothing, still have a good residual value and should continue to work well even if eventually they have to be serviced. And only Leica know how many sensors may still need replacement - it may be low and it may be that any which have lasted this long are going to be ok, only Leica will be aware of this.

 

We still have the residual idea that cameras should be for life, born out of the precision, mechanical age. Photography has moved on. Digital systems are not mechanical ones whether we like it or not. If anyone thinks that Leica can sustain an open ended commitment to replacing digital parts which are ageing then they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Canon no longer support their early 'pro' digital cameras - 1D, 1DS, 1DMkII & 1DS Mk II. I have a MkIII which is depreciating and if I get rid of it this needs to happen before support goes too. And these cost a lot more (equivalent) than even an M9 when originally released. I'd guess Nikon are the same. Why assume that a far smaller company will support an open ended commitment - I don't even though it may eventually affect me (though I'm not going to lose sleep over it  ).

[pedaes]

I agree with pgk. I was fortunate to benefit from the original programme late last year when I had a cracked sensor replaced. At the time there was an offer to undertake an advanced service for a fee. If one was cynical the extra service offered was very little, and I thought at the time it was more an initiative to try and defray cost. Similarly, the offer of a leather cover also defrayed cost as we know the original covering has to be replaced anyway. I agreed to both options as it was extremely good value in terms of an overall package returning a five year old camera to new with some enhancement, and future proofed if the claim about the robustness of the new sensor is correct. As has as been said a better and more imaginitive presentation of the change would have been good. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by pedaes

[WvE]

I can understand that Leica cannot change sensors free of charge indefinitely; the life expectancy of a product like this is also not indefinitely. However, Leica should probably have given a clear horizon at the time they first confirmed that they would change affected sensors free of charge.      

[pgk]

I can understand that Leica cannot change sensors free of charge indefinitely; the life expectancy of a product like this is also not indefinitely. However, Leica should probably have given a clear horizon at the time they first confirmed that they would change affected sensors free of charge.      

 

If they had known about the precise extent of the problem that is. Tricky when a problem occurs and its unclear how many cameras are/may be affected. Its always a trade off between the complaints due to the problem occurring as the problem is discovered and those which will be due to a statement about the problem and a specified horizon. I'm absolutely certain that Leica would have preferred to have had no problem at all, but given that they did its about managing expectations in the realisation that many will complain come what may - predicting the minimal complaint route is probably an art in itself.

[Sho-Bud]

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What happened to the concept of these cameras being enduring heirlooms that are handed down to children and grandchildren?  Isn't that part of the allure and one of the reasons for the premium price?  This is a defect in workmanship issue and Leica should stand by their product.  What a ridiculous decision.

No electronic device will last that long (to be handed down to children and grandchildren). Electronic components are outdated quickly, and at a certain moment replacement parts will not be available anymore. It's the reality. 

[jaapv]

Well, I don't know. My brother managed to restore our father's 1955 Kuba taperecorder...

 

 

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[IkarusJohn]

So what is the reasonable life expectancy of a $7,000 camera?

[jaapv]

Well, my DMR and Digilux 2 are still perfectly usable, and I suspect there would be little wrong with my canon 10D if I still had it.

[IkarusJohn]

That doesn't really answer the question, as neither have support, do they?

[jdlaing]

Reasonable life expectancy is ten years.

More than reasonable warranty period for manufacturer defects is 3 years which is stated in the warranty.

After the warranty period I would have to pay for repairs.

 

Quite simple really.

 

If $7,000.00 is of great concern you need to find a less expensive hobby or a better job.

 

There ain't a person on this planet that doesn't know Leica equipment is expensive.

[jaapv]

That doesn't really answer the question, as neither have support, do they?

None of them, but as long as they work...

[pgk]

Reasonable life expectancy is ten years.

 

I sell underwater camera housings. I take great pains to tell my customers that they should see a beautifully built piece of engineering as a ten year investment. After that it will be difficult to buy viable, reliable cameras to put in the housing and it will effectively be pretty worthless.

 

To illustrate this very vividly, I have been asked to sell a housing for a Nikon D70 in the last few weeks. It has never been used so is near mint condition. But it is ten years old and good D70s are not so easy to find. Any accessories required to get it up and running are full retail too. Which leaves a very fine piece of equipment worth basically whatever someone is prepared to pay (very, very little). Given the new cost was several thousand £s, this doesn't go down well but there is no way around it.

 

[That said I do have customer who has a D70 and housing and he had the housing serviced recently by the factory - he does not want to replace it so invested in a 10 year service and it came back in immaculate condition.]

 

I also have a housing for a Canon 1DS MkI for sale and, horrifically, it is worth more for some of the parts than it is as a going concern.

 

Of course anyone can refute my take on this by offering me a large sum of money for any of the above housings (do feel free - I'll even undertake to pay for a classified ad here on the forum if somebody does!) but I'm not going to hold my breath on this one.

 

So after 10 years IMO a digital camera will probably have reached its bottom line residual value which is usually a very small fraction of its new cost, and this is basically because they have reached the end of their reliable life and are no longer supported. If you want to find out more look up the new price of the older Canikon pro models and what they go for now. The real paradox here is that, despite the moaning on the forum, Leica digital cameras actually do retain a far higher residual value than most others!

[mmradman]

Well, I don't know. My brother managed to restore our father's 1955 Kuba taperecorder...

 

 

kuba.jpg

Any electronic device containing basic R/L/C components and produced in the era before microchips and surface mounted boards can be repaired with soldering iron. Most of the restoration is replacing aged capacitors and resistors with fresh equivalents which are available, even electronic valves can be sourced. Such methodology and available spares doesn't work with highly integrated boards, not yet at least until Star-Trek replication technology becomes available.

[M9reno]

We still have the residual idea that cameras should be for life, born out of the precision, mechanical age. Photography has moved on. Digital systems are not mechanical ones whether we like it or not. If anyone thinks that Leica can sustain an open ended commitment to replacing digital parts which are ageing then they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

I fully agree, though I think that "residual idea" is one that Leica itself has been in the past responsible for fostering.  On the other hand, I admit that over the last few years, Leica's advertising seems to be more honest in this regard, and the term "lifetime camera" etc is no longer to be found lightly used in ads, etc.

[jaapv]

Any electronic device containing basic R/L/C components and produced in the era before microchips and surface mounted boards can be repaired with soldering iron. Most of the restoration is replacing aged capacitors and resistors with fresh equivalents which are available, even electronic valves can be sourced. Such methodology and available spares doesn't work with highly integrated boards, not yet at least until Star-Trek replication technology becomes available.

That is quite true, although I would not be surprised if such technology became available sooner rather than later. In many ways we are living in a post-Star-Trek world already.

[Denys]

Like many here, I assume, I also have a Japanese DSLR. I paid quite a lot for it, and as I expected, the warranty ran out and its value has fallen at a steady pace. What we are discussing here is different. For example, an M9 falling in value slowly, then a big, rapid drop in value when the corrosion problem was found. When Leica announced the 'for life' replacement programme the M9 value increased and more people bought them. Now the value for a first-generation M9 must surely be very low. It's no surprise people feel let down. I love my camera and feel some sympathy with Leica..if anyone from the company is following these posts it must be worrying. I never thought I'd be reading so many posts about "I hope my sensor is corroded" and "I wish I had cancelled my order for an M10 rather than buying it".

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Hallo,

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[Rus]

Does the new policy apply to all the M9 series' special editions? 

[Eoin]

The lifetime of a camera can be measured by the fact it starts up every time you switch it on.

The serviceable lifetime however is held hostage to supply of ageing components which are either no longer being manufactured, held in stock or even harvested from defective units.

 

We've seen this already with the M8 and the LCD rear display. A critical components lack of supply has ended its manufacturers ability to replace that part, yet the camera still has a useful lifetime as long as the component keeps working.

 

Unfortunately, this is the age we live in, everything has become disposable as we fast forward though our technological advancement.

In Business and life in general, I think apart from myself :-), things seem to have a 10 year lifespan.