M10 Stuck On ISO 400

[4pipes]

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I’m just going to use the crap out of my M10, ISO wheel and all. If it needs repairing, so be it!

[scott kirkpatrick]

That's the spirit!  

[CJJon]

I’m just going to use the crap out of my M10, ISO wheel and all. If it needs repairing, so be it!

 

Good plan, but I'm pretty sure most of the crap was still in my M10 when it broke. Do you think they will top off the crap when they finish fixing my ISO wheel? I'm pretty sure that's included in the service.

 

I'll let you know if my M10 is full of crap when I get it back from Leica. 

 

[digitalfx]

We now have 17 cases here with the problem. Even if 100% of affected owners found their way to this forum, this is not a minuscule problem that can be ignored.

 

 

Ive ignored it and just continue enjoying my camera.

Id suggest, unless your camera was affected you do the same.

 

im not sure why you are so concerned.

[digitalfx]

What number is this percentage based on? Is there solid proof that 100% of affected cameras have been reported on this forum? Lots of Leica apologist around here.

 

 

seriously...why are you all worked up over this?

 

Do you have an M10?

are you having any issues?

[mr_big]

seriously...why are you all worked up over this?

 

Do you have an M10?

are you having any issues?

 

Yes, I do have an M10. I also had an M8 (IR issues), an M9 (cracked sensor), so that's why I'm so worked up about it because I know how long it takes for Leica to get things repaired. Seriously.

[wpm]

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For what it's worth, I finally was able to contact Leica NJ Friday to ask about my monochrom they've had for four months for 

a new sensor. Still a month out I'm told. I did ask if they had M10's coming in for repairs and the answer was yes, a lot. Makes me want to 

wait for one that has been serviced.

[mr_big]

im not sure why you are so concerned.

I don't believe you wrote this. You don't see the reason why a person that just spent 6.5k on a camera should be concerned about a flaw that has cropped up that can put the camera out of commission with no clear explanation as to why it's happening? I use the crap out of my camera and I don't like thinking it'll go belly up at any moment. I use this camera when I travel so I don't have to lug around a big DSLR and I certainly don't want to carry one around as a backup.

[digitalfx]

I don't believe you wrote this. 

 

 

yes I did. I have no concerns...been shooting with mine for over 8 months now with no issues. There is no reason to be concerned about something that hasn't happened to you. Just enjoy the camera.

[S.Rolf]

I own one of the original Canon 5D DSLR's and apparently there was an issue with the mirror breaking free inside.

The issue was quickly identified (by Canon) as a batch of bad adhesive which was used to mount the mirror to its frame.

A recall was issued for all owners of this model to have theirs fixed (at no charge of course) even if they had experienced the problem or not.

 

Leica obviously knows about the ISO issue with some and seem to know how to fix it.

So why not own-up to it and offer the same recall option?

At least tell us what was found to be the culprit.

I don't think that's too much to ask from us.

Yes, I'll continue to use it but will keep wondering "when the other shoe will drop" and that sucks.

[Jared]

I own one of the original Canon 5D DSLR's and apparently there was an issue with the mirror breaking free inside.

The issue was quickly identified (by Canon) as a batch of bad adhesive which was used to mount the mirror to its frame.

A recall was issued for all owners of this model to have theirs fixed (at no charge of course) even if they had experienced the problem or not.

 

Leica obviously knows about the ISO issue with some and seem to know how to fix it.

So why not own-up to it and offer the same recall option?

At least tell us what was found to be the culprit.

I don't think that's too much to ask from us.

Yes, I'll continue to use it but will keep wondering "when the other shoe will drop" and that sucks.

 

 

I don't know what the answer is in this case, but I can think of several possibilities:

 

1) They don't know whether all cameras, or just some cameras, are affected so don't know what to recall.  Is it prior to a certain date code?  All cameras glued by a particular worker who was too stingy with the epoxy?  A bad batch of epoxy?  A poor design that effects all units produced?  We don't know the answer and I'm not certain yet that Leica does either.  Makes it hard to determine the appropriate response.

2) They aren't certain that they yet have a permanent fix; the current repairs may just be "temporary" in practice with little confidence that a fix now to all cameras would last indefinitely.

3) Too small a number of cameras are affected for a recall to be beneficial to owners overall given the staffing available for repairs.  For example, if repairing all cameras currently in consumers' hands would require a six month wait and would only help, say, a couple dozen owners, it may be better to just let the couple dozen fail and fix as required.  While not being pro-active on this situation will hurt their reputation, they could possibly decide that leaving a large number of customers without cameras for an extended period of time while a recall was managed would actually hurt their reputation even more, particularly if they believe that most of the cameras that are going to fail already have failed.

 

I don't know that any of the above explanations are the correct one.  Perhaps they are just burying their heads in the sand.  But it is equally possible that they are behaving ethically and responsibly and one of the issues above--or something I didn't think of--is preventing them from being more pro-active.  I don't think we have any evidence one way or another.  As far as I am aware--and I'll admit I've only read a couple pages of this thread--there is no identified pattern in the failure.  Early cameras seem to be affected more often, but early cameras have, almost by definition, been used more heavily at this point, so I'm not certain that tells us anything.  It may take months for us to learn more.  

[digitalfx]

I own one of the original Canon 5D DSLR's and apparently there was an issue with the mirror breaking free inside.

The issue was quickly identified (by Canon) as a batch of bad adhesive which was used to mount the mirror to its frame.

A recall was issued for all owners of this model to have theirs fixed (at no charge of course) even if they had experienced the problem or not.

 

Leica obviously knows about the ISO issue with some and seem to know how to fix it.

So why not own-up to it and offer the same recall option?

At least tell us what was found to be the culprit.

I don't think that's too much to ask from us.

Yes, I'll continue to use it but will keep wondering "when the other shoe will drop" and that sucks.

 

 

 

Recalls are typically issued when the problem is widespread...this is clearly not the case here.

[riswanc]

You can add me to the problem list. SilverM10 received in April serial 5181xxx, date on the box 2017/03/13. I've mostly left the wheel set at A but I will freeze ISO at a higher value than 100 if I need to keep shutter speed from dropping to its minimum in low-to-moderate light. Or set things to ISO 100 if using a tripod. I value that fact that the M10 just does things without my having to think about it, so I don't know how long it has been stuck on ISO 3200...

You get your M10 quite early, some time in march only recently it is fault?

How much shutter have you used?

 

I thought problem usually arise sooner

 

 

Instagram @jakontil

[scott kirkpatrick]

You get your M10 quite early, some time in march only recently it is fault?

How much shutter have you used?

 

I thought problem usually arise sooner

 

 

Instagram @jakontil

I shot the M10 extensively in a beta test and have used it normally otherwise.  I also work with SL so it doesn't get used every day.  And I leave the ISO on A unless I want to keep the shutter speed higher in low light (and don't want to go into the menu to set it as part of Auto ISO) or I can allow an extra low shutter speed, so I just fix the ISO on 100 or 200.  Ergo, I'm not a heavy user of the ISO wheel.

 

scott

[Reciprocity]

Recalls are typically issued when the problem is widespread...this is clearly not the case here.

 

 

I'm sorry, I know I am new here and all, but I find this and the previous posts on the matter by you to be overly dismissive and somewhat marginalizing of other's concerns. 

 

I won't even go into how this concerns me as a professional user of this product ( Mine will be delivered tomorrow ) given Leica's virtually non-existent quick turn around repair and loaner program. 

What I will go into is that this is obviously an electro-mechanical issue that could either be dependent on a bad component batch, a less than quality assembly within a specific serial number range or a widespread problem based on either bad components or a design flaw. 

 

Since frequency of use of the ISO dial varies widely ( I will be using mine a lot ), I would expect the timing in that the issue surfaces will reflect that. In the posts that precede yours, you have a variety of people from pros in the middle of shoots to keen enthusiasts who have all been affected by this issue in ways that make it to where they have no choice but to send the camera in and be without it for at least two weeks and as long as a month. 

 

I think the forensics of monitoring serial numbers, manufacture dates and dates of failure are very valuable in helping pin down what type of issue we have here. But if the serial numbers and manufacture dates keep climbing and the ISO dials keep failing, then what are people to think? 

 

At some point it will all be more clear, it was a bad component batch or suboptimal assembly that is specific to a range of serial numbers and build dates or it is a wide spread problem based on a component or design flaw. 

 

To just dismiss it as if you are certain it is not widespread is disrespectful of the community you appear to serve. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Reciprocity

[riswanc]

I'm sorry, I know I am new here and all, but I find this and the previous posts on the matter by you to be overly dismissive and somewhat marginalizing of other's concerns.

 

I won't even go into how this concerns me as a professional user of this product ( Mine will be delivered tomorrow ) given Leica's virtually non-existent quick turn around repair and loaner program.

What I will go into is that this is obviously an electro-mechanical issue that could either be dependent on a bad component batch, a less than quality assembly within a specific serial number range or a widespread problem based on either bad components or a design flaw.

 

Since frequency of use of the ISO dial varies widely ( I will be using mine a lot ), I would expect the timing in that the issue surfaces will reflect that. In the posts that precede yours, you have a variety of people from pros in the middle of shoots to keen enthusiasts who have all been affected by this issue in ways that make it to where they have no choice but to send the camera in and be without it for at least two weeks and as long as a month.

 

I think the forensics of monitoring serial numbers, manufacture dates and dates of failure are very valuable in helping pin down what type of issue we have here. But if the serial numbers and manufacture dates keep climbing and the ISO dials keep failing, then what are people to think?

 

At some point it will all be more clear, it was a bad component batch or suboptimal assembly that is specific to a range of serial numbers and build dates or it is a wide spread problem based on a component or design flaw.

 

To just dismiss it as if you are certain it is not widespread is disrespectful of the community you appear to serve.

Spot on [emoji1303]

 

Especially first paragraph

 

 

Instagram @jakontil

[jdlaing]

I'm sorry, I know I am new here and all, but I find this and the previous posts on the matter by you to be overly dismissive and somewhat marginalizing of other's concerns.

 

I won't even go into how this concerns me as a professional user of this product ( Mine will be delivered tomorrow ) given Leica's virtually non-existent quick turn around repair and loaner program.

What I will go into is that this is obviously an electro-mechanical issue that could either be dependent on a bad component batch, a less than quality assembly within a specific serial number range or a widespread problem based on either bad components or a design flaw.

 

Since frequency of use of the ISO dial varies widely ( I will be using mine a lot ), I would expect the timing in that the issue surfaces will reflect that. In the posts that precede yours, you have a variety of people from pros in the middle of shoots to keen enthusiasts who have all been affected by this issue in ways that make it to where they have no choice but to send the camera in and be without it for at least two weeks and as long as a month.

 

I think the forensics of monitoring serial numbers, manufacture dates and dates of failure are very valuable in helping pin down what type of issue we have here. But if the serial numbers and manufacture dates keep climbing and the ISO dials keep failing, then what are people to think?

 

At some point it will all be more clear, it was a bad component batch or suboptimal assembly that is specific to a range of serial numbers and build dates or it is a wide spread problem based on a component or design flaw.

 

To just dismiss it as if you are certain it is not widespread is disrespectful of the community you appear to serve.

A quick question:

 

Were you aware of, or had heard about, the issue before you received your M-10?

[jaapv]

I'm sorry, I know I am new here and all, but I find this and the previous posts on the matter by you to be overly dismissive and somewhat marginalizing of other's concerns. 

 

I won't even go into how this concerns me as a professional user of this product ( Mine will be delivered tomorrow ) given Leica's virtually non-existent quick turn around repair and loaner program. 

What I will go into is that this is obviously an electro-mechanical issue that could either be dependent on a bad component batch, a less than quality assembly within a specific serial number range or a widespread problem based on either bad components or a design flaw. 

 

Since frequency of use of the ISO dial varies widely ( I will be using mine a lot ), I would expect the timing in that the issue surfaces will reflect that. In the posts that precede yours, you have a variety of people from pros in the middle of shoots to keen enthusiasts who have all been affected by this issue in ways that make it to where they have no choice but to send the camera in and be without it for at least two weeks and as long as a month. 

 

I think the forensics of monitoring serial numbers, manufacture dates and dates of failure are very valuable in helping pin down what type of issue we have here. But if the serial numbers and manufacture dates keep climbing and the ISO dials keep failing, then what are people to think? 

 

At some point it will all be more clear, it was a bad component batch or suboptimal assembly that is specific to a range of serial numbers and build dates or it is a wide spread problem based on a component or design flaw. 

 

To just dismiss it as if you are certain it is not widespread is disrespectful of the community you appear to serve. 

Hmmm. One participant on this thread who had the issue notified Wetzlar that he needed his M10 cameras professionally, made an appointment, drove over, had one camera fixed on the spot and received a loaner for the other. I cannot see what is wrong with this service.

I find the assumption that Leica just repairs/exchanges the cameras without analyzing the data rather naive.

They would be mad not to look for correlations in batch numbers, assembly period, technicians involved, etc.

In that context, the collection of serial numbers on this forum, by nature incomplete,  is bound to rather unreliable compared to the exact records that Leica keeps.

[Reciprocity]

A quick question:

 

Were you aware of, or had heard about, the issue before you received your M-10?

 

 

As my first post on this site says, I have had the camera pre-ordered since February and just got notification from my dealer on Monday that it is in. I don’t have the camera yet, I get it tomorrow. I have been aware of the issue and weighed that into if I should take the camera offered to me at this stage or wait until next year. 

 

Regarding jaapv's reference to driving right over for a repair, I live in Wyoming so that is not exactly easy. 

 

I am keeping my fingers crossed that I have a high enough serial number that the build date reflects being well clear of a problem component, I will be happy to share the majority of my serial number on this thread when I get the camera in hand. 

 

Here is to hoping that this was limited to a specific build and not the entire line of cameras built thus far.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Reciprocity

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[jaapv]

As my first post on this site says, I have had the camera pre-ordered since February and just got notification from my dealer on Monday that it is in. I don’t have the camera yet, I get it tomorrow. I have been aware of the issue and weighed that into if I should take the camera offered to me at this stage or wait until next year. 

 

Regarding jaapv's reference to driving right over for a repair, I live in Wyoming so that is not exactly easy. 

 

I am keeping my fingers crossed that I have a high enough serial number that the build date reflects being well clear of a problem component, I will be happy to share the majority of my serial number on this thread when I get the camera in hand.

No, that is not easy, but if you register (documented) as a professional in Wetzlar you will get professional service, which includes expedited repairs and loaners. I am aware that there have been one or two mishaps in this system, but in general, it works very well.

Wetzlar is only an UPS distant from Wyoming. after all.