RF alignment. Here we go again.

[digitalfx]

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I have seen the article. I'm asking about the cam adjustment. I am looking dead centre down the RF viewfinder.

 

As I mentioned - I'm shooting something way away- effectively on infinity. I focus using the EVF- it's sharp. Great. Of course it is. It's the sensor feeding directly to the evf.

 

Keeping the camera in the same position I look through the RF and the patches are off. and I have to turn the lens away from infinity even more to get the patches to align. They are in line top and bottom but the focus patch is off to the side. I assume this is the horizontal adjustment.

 

My shots that are in focus using the evf are not in focussed when solely using the RF.

 

 

 

But did you read it? The answer is right there.

 

and note infinity is a long ways off. Have you tested shooting the moon at night?

[satureyes]

Satureyes, are you saying that "ALL" lenses are off on the M10 with the RF patch or just the 90mm?.

I ask this because you've had the camera for a couple of weeks now and you've only noticed this with the 90mm today.

Or is it a case where you've been struggling with all lenses over the past weeks and the 90 experience today confirms your suspicion?.

To be honest I've not had a proper chance to test it. I noticed it by chance today because I was shooting with the evf. I had a 35mm with me and it's also happening on that too.

[digitalfx]

Satureyes, are you saying that "ALL" lenses are off on the M10 with the RF patch or just the 90mm?.

I ask this because you've had the camera for a couple of weeks now and you've only noticed this with the 90mm today.

Or is it a case where you've been struggling with all lenses over the past weeks and the 90 experience today confirms your suspicion?.

 

 

and exactly my question...its hard to assist with limited info.

 

You don't match your rangefinder to your lenses. Either the camera is off and ALL your lenses are off as a result. But if the problem is just seen on your 90mm, then don't adjust the camera. And yes use a tripod before making an adjustment

[Jeff S]

Then conclusions are premature. You have LV and should take advantage of it by running careful tripod tests with all lenses and comparing to the RF. I assumed you did that.

 

Jeff

[Eoin]

In that case, I'd advise more tests to confirm your suspicion before taking a wrench to it. I've done that in the past but would advise against it as it's difficult to guarantee all lenses will focus correctly afterwards.

 

Also Infinity shots should be tested at very far objects (miles) or as suggested the moon at night. (or so I've been told)

[digitalfx]

what f-stop are you shooting at?

you have to put the lens on a tripod to know if you have an issue. Just breathing can affect your focus, especially when shooting wide open.

 

The odds that your new body has a horizontal misalignment are very low...vertical is more common and easier to correct.

The odds of user error are far greater than the RF being off...especially based on the way you are testing. If the horizontal is off, all of your images would be soft. Seems like you would have noticed this on day one.

[satureyes]

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But did you read it? The answer is right there.

 

and note infinity is a long ways off. Have you tested shooting the moon at night?

Nope. I'm in the UK. A clear sky would be a fine thing.

 

At the moment I've tweaked the cam hex a tiny amount.

It's near spot on at min focus distance and when the lens is set to infinity something a long way off appears to be in focus both when I'm shooting with the evf and the rf.

 

 

I can shoot the moon soon. If I can see it.

[pico]

Looks like I'll be trying to adjust this again myself with a small wrench and the nut in the lens mount.

I am not familiar with the 90mm, but I do have a Hektor 135mm in M-mount.

Where is the small nut you mention? I imagine it must be under the outer covering.

No?

[satureyes]

In answer to all the questions. 

 

It appeared that ALL my lenses were off. I only had a 35mm and 90 with me so whilst I was out, and noticed the potential issue this is all I had. When I returned home I popped the tripod up and went to test. 

 

So what I've noticed is that ALL the lenses were out and they all had to be focussed in the same direction when I needed to correct the RF bad focus to make it all look good in the EVF. 

 

I have a 'lens align' thing - basically a ruler on an angle. I set this up and put on the 90 and min focus distance. I could see that when I focussed on 0 in the EVF the RF was not lined up (one patch was to the left of the central patch). Lens set wide open at f2. Obviously all the other lenses I tested were wide open too. 

 

When I focussed so the RF patches together, the 0 was not in focus in the EVF. 

I moved backwards to about 2m and repeated. Same thing

I moved back about 4m and the same thing although it was getting hard to pinpoint the letter now on the RF. 

I then tried the 50 lux, the 35, and the 28 but obviously with the 28 it was harder to see because of the nature of the lens. 

 

I pointed it out of the window and the same happened as happened when I was out in the field today - even at infinity there was still the RF showing it was in focus when in fact it wasn't (as confirmed by the LV/EVF)

I used the hex wrench on the nut in the lens mount and adjusted it a tiny tiny amount towards the side of RF window. 

I repeated the tests, with each lens again in turn but this time shooting outside of an open window to something that was as far away as I could see (and see it was in focus). It was slightly out - so another tiny adjustment. I knew I was going in the right direction though. 

Tested all the lenses again - and now it *seems* to be very very close to perfection when compared to the EVF focussed shots. I don't think any more adjustments would do more than knock it off the other way. 

 

 

What I have noticed now is that the lens is set all the way to infinity and there is not much 'wiggle room' in terms of getting the RF to be in focus when the lens is set all the way to the hard stop at infinity. However checking with the EVF it would 'appear' that this is actually in focus both with the LV and the RF. 

So problem solved? Or do I need to wait for the moon to confirm this?


 

[satureyes]

I am not familiar with the 90mm, but I do have a Hektor 135mm in M-mount.

Where is the small nut you mention? I imagine it must be under the outer covering.

No?

 

I'm talking about the hex nut that is in the middle of the cam lever when you take the lens off and look inside - under the rim of the lens mount there's a shiny circular disk and in the middle is a hole - this is the adjustment I altered. 

[satureyes]

As luck would have it, it's a nice bright moon tonight. I went out to test infinity. Think it's fine. I shot both with RF and EVF and they both seem to match up properly. 

 

It's hard to tell 100% because there's a natural haze around it BUT I looked at the shots and they appear to be totally in focus too. I can't tell the difference with the EVF focussed ones and the RF focussed ones. I cropped them in but didn't do anything else in LR to them. 

Does this prove my adjustments have been successful? 

 

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[digitalfx]

Nope. I'm in the UK. A clear sky would be a fine thing.

 

 

 

Nope as in you didn't read the details on how to adjust the horizontal alignment?

http://nemeng.com/leica/034b.shtml

 

 

 

So problem solved? Or do I need to wait for the moon to confirm this?

 

 

 

 

 

That depends on if you are happy with the results...but as I understand it you should be making this adjustment at infinity first, not close focus.

[don daniel]

If you can focus correctly by rangefinder also near objects now then you have done exactly the right thing. 

[digitalfx]

As luck would have it, it's a nice bright moon tonight. I went out to test infinity. Think it's fine. I shot both with RF and EVF and they both seem to match up properly. 

 

It's hard to tell 100% because there's a natural haze around it BUT I looked at the shots and they appear to be totally in focus too. I can't tell the difference with the EVF focussed ones and the RF focussed ones. I cropped them in but didn't do anything else in LR to them. 

 

Does this prove my adjustments have been successful? 

 

 

seems like it...but the images will speak for themselves. Go out and shoot tomorrow and see what happens.

[Jeff S]

There's a reason long-time independent repair folks like Sherry Krauter will only service film Ms....and that's because the modern equipment to deal with digital tolerances is cost prohibitive (she told me so). But if you're pleased with results, then that's what counts.

 

Jeff

[satureyes]

So here's a question.

With the lens at its furthest travel at infinity - there's no where else to go- should there be any wiggle room at all or will a correctly set camera/cam/arm mean that when the lens is all the way over to infinity then it's at true infinity (moon in focus etc) or should it have some room 'past' infinity?

Edited April 9, 2017 by satureyes

[FlashGordonPhotography]

There's a detailed thread in the M9 section about calibrating a digital M across the horizontal. Easy enough to find in the M8/9 section.

 

If the patch doesn't reach infinity at the hard stop then your camera is front focusing. With the camera upside down so you can see the adjustment cam you turn the key clockwise. It's only a tiny adjustment. Be patient. You will go the wrong way. And you will overshoot and then need to go back. Just be patient.

 

My M10 was off in the vertical. That's an easy adjustment. Behind the red dot. Horizontal is in the middle of the main RF roller cam.

 

When doing the horizontal any lens will hit infinity about 2kms out. You will also need a mid point. I like about 20 meters. Minimum depends on the lens. Personally, I adjust for the mid point and then use near and infinity to test. I found adjusting from a mid point focus was easier and quicker.

 

Adjusting the roller cam only adjusts the throw of the RF (essentially the whole range of focus is moved forward or back). It's possible, but unlikely that the length of the throw is out. In that case you'll need to send your camera in as it's not something you can do yourself on a camera later than the m9. You'll know if after 20 minutes of back and foward you can't get all three test distances to work together. Just pack it up and send it in.

 

The roller adjustment is sealed. Use a bit of acetone to soften it. For God's sake don't get any on the sensor. Use a tiny wet spot on a cotton tip to soften the seal. It will reset after a few minutes.

 

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

So here's a question.

With the lens at its furthest travel at infinity - there's no where else to go- should there be any wiggle room at all or will a correctly set camera/cam/arm mean that when the lens is all the way over to infinity then it's at true infinity (moon in focus etc) or should it have some room 'past' infinity?

 

no. M lenses have a hard stop at infinity.

 

Gordon

[satureyes]

no. M lenses have a hard stop at infinity.

 

Gordon

Sorry. What I meant it when the lens is at its furthest point and can travel no more on the focus ring - is this 'true' infinity?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[satureyes]

There's a detailed thread in the M9 section about calibrating a digital M across the horizontal. Easy enough to find in the M8/9 section.

 

If the patch doesn't reach infinity at the hard stop then your camera is front focusing. With the camera upside down so you can see the adjustment cam you turn the key clockwise. It's only a tiny adjustment. Be patient. You will go the wrong way. And you will overshoot and then need to go back. Just be patient.

 

My M10 was off in the vertical. That's an easy adjustment. Behind the red dot. Horizontal is in the middle of the main RF roller cam.

 

When doing the horizontal any lens will hit infinity about 2kms out. You will also need a mid point. I like about 20 meters. Minimum depends on the lens. Personally, I adjust for the mid point and then use near and infinity to test. I found adjusting from a mid point focus was easier and quicker.

 

Adjusting the roller cam only adjusts the throw of the RF (essentially the whole range of focus is moved forward or back). It's possible, but unlikely that the length of the throw is out. In that case you'll need to send your camera in as it's not something you can do yourself on a camera later than the m9. You'll know if after 20 minutes of back and foward you can't get all three test distances to work together. Just pack it up and send it in.

 

The roller adjustment is sealed. Use a bit of acetone to soften it. For God's sake don't get any on the sensor. Use a tiny wet spot on a cotton tip to soften the seal. It will reset after a few minutes.

 

Gordon

 

It appeared that all my lenses were out by the same amount. A very tiny adjustment to the horizontal sorted this. Seems they are all fine now.

 

However there was no seal on the horizontal. It moved with ease. Are you saying there should have been something sealing the horizontal hex screw?