Joshua Lowe Posted April 24, 2017 Share #601 Posted April 24, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yep, film M bodies are still unmatched when it comes to instant readiness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 24, 2017 Posted April 24, 2017 Hi Joshua Lowe, Take a look here M10? - Sorry, no!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Stef63 Posted April 24, 2017 Share #602 Posted April 24, 2017 Yep, film M bodies are still unmatched when it comes to instant readiness. Hmm, M10 does 5 fps. What is the definition of instant readiness... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted April 25, 2017 Share #603 Posted April 25, 2017 Yep, film M bodies are still unmatched when it comes to instant readiness. In concept I agree, but they still need to be turned on, by one means or another. (Assuming you wish to use the in-camera meter, and why wouldn't you!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted April 25, 2017 Share #604 Posted April 25, 2017 In concept I agree, but they still need to be turned on, by one means or another. (Assuming you wish to use the in-camera meter, and why wouldn't you!) Cos I don't have one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted April 25, 2017 Share #605 Posted April 25, 2017 Yep, film M bodies are still unmatched when it comes to instant readiness. In my 30 or so years of shooting, I would estimate the number of photographs I missed because my camera wasn't "instantly ready" to be zero. From my perspective, it's a useless metric. If you half-press the shutter button of the M10 as you are bringing it up to your eye, it will be awake and ready to shoot before you have finished framing and focusing. What more do you need? If you shoot from the hip with zone focusing and absolutely don't want to miss that perfect moment, leave the camera on all the time and carry several spare batteries. Not much different than carrying several spare rolls of film. I expect one of these two techniques will work the vast majority of the time for the vast majority of photographers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
horosu Posted April 25, 2017 Share #606 Posted April 25, 2017 Hmm, M10 does 5 fps. What is the definition of instant readiness... Certainly not 5 fps :-))). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted April 25, 2017 Share #607 Posted April 25, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) It seems many of us have different perceptions of what 'ready' means. The main thing is that each of us knows what we mean, and actually practice it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted April 25, 2017 Share #608 Posted April 25, 2017 I don't care how ready a film body is, after 36 exposures it's pretty useless unless you change the film. If you can't wait 1 to 2 seconds for an electronic device to come to life, I wonder how frustrating your day actually is. Boil a Kettle. Toast some toast. Turnover your car to start it. Boot or login to your computer. Click the home button or swipe to use a mobile phone. Wait on the wife to be ready to walk out the door We accept everyday things require time or a procedure to operate, if you're living your life in microsecond windows you have my sympathy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 25, 2017 Share #609 Posted April 25, 2017 This topic comes up regularly. All it proves is that some photographers want or need instant readiness for their practice, and other photographers can't understand those wants or needs. As long as we don't get to the stage where some are told that their wants/needs are invalid, or that fulfilling them would mean the end of M photography as we know it. FTAOD this is a prophylactic post; we have not yet reached that stage in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted April 25, 2017 Share #610 Posted April 25, 2017 Good post Eoin. 'Armchair warriors' comes to mind when I read those comments regarding startup times... not in the sense that people just want to argue or pile in with comments, but in the sense of in the real world, people using their cameras are really not going to lose a potential photo due to 'start up time' and I think most of the people making these comments just aren't actively using their cameras in this way, its just some theoretical problem they like to winge on about. Of course you could lose a potential 'moment' because the camera was in a bag... or because you fumbled with focus.. or just 'saw' the photo too late as you were passing by... or are in company, or in a car and couldn't really stop without inconveniencing others... But apart from someone shooting street or documentary work, the chances of losing a shot due to 'start up time' is so small its not even worth considering. But surely, if you are shooting 'street' (both a style and a term I loathe) or documentary, surely your camera is on and ready and you are actively engaged on what is going on around you? I think these comments are irritating and pretentious nonsense... or simply just a weak excuse for someone to try to show some supposed benefit in mechanical film cameras out of pure snobbery... of which there is a lot of on this forum, unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted April 25, 2017 Share #611 Posted April 25, 2017 Certainly not 5 fps :-))). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk M10 can be used with 5 frames/second . ... But I only used once, thougt to be selected in Menu, nice and (almost) silent burst. ... M10 is fast enough for me to wake up and take picture. I understand that now we live in "Fast and Furious World", that one second or a little more could disturb people . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted April 25, 2017 Share #612 Posted April 25, 2017 Five examples of shite in one second is pretty pedestrian these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
horosu Posted April 25, 2017 Share #613 Posted April 25, 2017 I don't care how ready a film body is, after 36 exposures it's pretty useless unless you change the film. If you can't wait 1 to 2 seconds for an electronic device to come to life, I wonder how frustrating your day actually is. It's not that we can't be patient 1-2 seconds, the problem is that life slips away :-)) And by that I mean the scene that you want to capture is no longer the same. This may be difficult to understand for some who either have a superb ability to ANTICIPATE what is going to happen, or to others who practice a different kind of photography, for which instantaneous shots are not what they strive for Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 25, 2017 Share #614 Posted April 25, 2017 Good post Eoin. 'Armchair warriors' comes to mind when I read those comments regarding startup times... not in the sense that people just want to argue or pile in with comments, but in the sense of in the real world, people using their cameras are really not going to lose a potential photo due to 'start up time' and I think most of the people making these comments just aren't actively using their cameras in this way, its just some theoretical problem they like to winge on about. Of course you could lose a potential 'moment' because the camera was in a bag... or because you fumbled with focus.. or just 'saw' the photo too late as you were passing by... or are in company, or in a car and couldn't really stop without inconveniencing others... But apart from someone shooting street or documentary work, the chances of losing a shot due to 'start up time' is so small its not even worth considering. But surely, if you are shooting 'street' (both a style and a term I loathe) or documentary, surely your camera is on and ready and you are actively engaged on what is going on around you? I think these comments are irritating and pretentious nonsense... or simply just a weak excuse for someone to try to show some supposed benefit in mechanical film cameras out of pure snobbery... of which there is a lot of on this forum, unfortunately. Bill, sadly you have just proved my point. OK, you're not predicting the end of M photography, but that's a fair amount of intolerance you have expressed with these words. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted April 25, 2017 Share #615 Posted April 25, 2017 Five examples of shite in one second is pretty pedestrian these days. Agree 100% . Those frames are deleted, lack of "decisive moments" . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted April 25, 2017 Share #616 Posted April 25, 2017 Bill, sadly you have just proved my point. OK, you're not predicting the end of M photography, but that's a fair amount of intolerance you have expressed with these words. Actually Paul, quite the opposite. Unfortunately, I think you have missed almost the entire point... (Although now I come to think of it, we have crossed swords on this point before... a couple of years ago... so perhaps that is why you are challenging my post. Why not just accept that we have a fundamentally different point of view on this topic. I am actively engaged when I am using my camera and the camera is on and the only limiting factor is me. When the camera is off (or in my bag) and I miss a shot or two... that's down to me. Then again, I'm not someone who walks down a street with my camera off and casually slung over my shoulder hoping for inspiration or something interesting - and who then complains when the camera isn't instantly ready, focussed, framed with the shutter firing when something eventually does happen...). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 25, 2017 Share #617 Posted April 25, 2017 [...] But apart from someone shooting street or documentary work, the chances of losing a shot due to 'start up time' is so small its not even worth considering. [...] What about Grandchildren Photography? I have a lot of young people around me and they don't wait at all you can trust me. In my practice, one second startup/wakeup time is fast enough as it is what this old fart needs to shoot in a hurry. The D-Lux 109 allows that if it works like my Pany Lx100 and so does my M8.2 let alone my film Ms of course. Why not my M240? And why not the M10 if it is not more responsive in this respect? I have no experience with the latter though so perhaps i'm mistaken about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted April 25, 2017 Share #618 Posted April 25, 2017 Lct, my M10 starts within more or less ONE second. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 25, 2017 Share #619 Posted April 25, 2017 Actually Paul, quite the opposite. Unfortunately, I think you have missed almost the entire point... (Although now I come to think of it, we have crossed swords on this point before... a couple of years ago... so perhaps that is why you are challenging my post. Why not just accept that we have a fundamentally different point of view on this topic. I am actively engaged when I am using my camera and the camera is on and the only limiting factor is me. When the camera is off (or in my bag) and I miss a shot or two... that's down to me. Then again, I'm not someone who walks down a street with my camera off and casually slung over my shoulder hoping for inspiration or something interesting - and who then complains when the camera isn't instantly ready, focussed, framed with the shutter firing when something eventually does happen...). I did not start by challenging your post - see my #609. Your post immediately afterwards rather reinforced the point I had made, as I subsequently noted. I'm not sure what "the entire point" is that I have missed, unless you were being ironic. Yes, I accept that we have fundamentally different points of view. But I don't feel the need to denigrate yours by using the offensive terms that you did. I have no problem with those who don't want a camera that can always take shots with no delay on switch on or wake up, or who have work-arounds. YMMV, but I don't appreciate being told my mileage must match somebody else's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 25, 2017 Share #620 Posted April 25, 2017 My guess is the culprit is the CMOS sensor, requiring more time at boot, though I have no technical knowledge of this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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