M10? - Sorry, no!

[Olsen]

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 I would love to have a slimmer M-body.  It confirms that Leica listens to customers having this fixed.  I haven't quite caught up with what Leica calls a 'better sensor'.  But it sounds good.   Better quality of high ISO settings is great.

​But still I don't find the improvements worth the cost of up-grading.  Due to:

​- Video is a must on today's cameras.  A camera without it belong to the past.  I use video 'a little' when on holiday and as a tourist.  The video and the still camera is then 'in the same box'.  Compact and convenient.  When buying a Leica we always have to prepare ourselves for selling it again.  It's the young people buying 2.hand Leicas today.  They will insist on having video included.  No way I am going to buy a camera I will have problems selling to young people of today.

​- Battery capacity is marginal on the M(240) and really 'bad' compared to competition.  Reducing it is going to create problems.  This must be solved!  What about having a big battery as an 'block add-on' at the bottom of the camera?  As the motors were attached on the analogue M's?

​- How good is a 'much better sensor'?  So good that no software created lens adjustments have to be made?  Can we use other brand lenses, like Zeiss and Voigtländer, without having purple egdes?

[Mr.Q]

This has been beaten to death, buT making the body slimmer meant removing video and making the battery smaller. If you don't like it the M10 is not for you.

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[SiOnara]

- Video is a must on today's cameras.  A camera without it belong to the past.  I use video 'a little' when on holiday and as a tourist.  The video and the still camera is then 'in the same box'.  Compact and convenient.  When buying a Leica we always have to prepare ourselves for selling it again.  It's the young people buying 2.hand Leicas today.  They will insist on having video included.  No way I am going to buy a camera I will have problems selling to young people of today.
 

 

I disagree.  The M line is a stills camera.  I think think the people purchasing this camera buy it as a stills camera.  The SL definitely has more chances of becoming a great video camera setup in the future.

 

To be a professional video camera the M would need decent inputs / output connectors, that will make it bigger then the M240.  

As a convenient video camera it needs to compete with the iPhone etc which has great 4K recording and amazing image stabilisation.  

It's a no go area.

 

Young people wishing to buy a used Leica M I think will be buying it as a stills camera.

Edited February 10, 2017 by SiOnara

[ShaunD]

A slimmer body, simplified controls, better rangefinder and believe it or not no video function (it was poor on the M240) were all on my wish list and I feel it is a worthwhile for me to change from my M240 to the M10. I didn't want a fancy camera that tried to be all things to everyone but something like an M of old a great camera for taking photographs with few bells and whistles.

[edwardkaraa]

Apart from video, it might also be very useful to include a few sophistications like internet explorer, remote control, alarm clock, compass, thermometer and barometer, nearest bar locator... etc. These functions can be very helpful and may actually save someone's life, especially the last one.

Edited February 10, 2017 by edwardkaraa

[Cliff S]

The iLeica!

[Olsen]

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I grew up in the analogue years and regard my M's as 'mostly' for still shooting.  Sure. Leica M-cameras are for still shooting.  For many years I had both a cam recorder alongside my M8 and M9.  Now I don't need the cam recorder anymore.  I get it all in one box.  - I don't agree that video on M(240) is bad.  It's best with electronic viewfinder and a add-on microphone.  Still it is a very compact solution.

​A video capability takes up no room in the camera body.  It's a software issue.  This can be solved.

​The battery is another matter.  I regard the battery as too small for the M (240).  There must be a fix for this too.

​Then it is the issue of steep light angles and purple coloured edges when using certain 'foreign' lenses.  Is it solved?

[Mr.Q]

​A video capability takes up no room in the camera body. It's a software issue. This can be solved.

No, it's a heat issue. This has been stated by Leica.

[LotharZhou]

I am so glad my M10 doesn't have the video function, the primary reason I didn't go for the M240.

[Cliff S]

You're glad no video or no video button. I'm glad there's no button that would get pressed inadvertently and screw up my next still shot. But if video were in a menu option, then it's out of the way unless you really want it.

[ShaunD]

 

 

I don't agree that video on M(240) is bad. 

 

​Then it is the issue of steep light angles and purple coloured edges when using certain 'foreign' lenses.  Is it solved?

 

 

 

 

I didn't say video was bad on the M240 I said it was poor but I am comparing the M240 video to that of the Sony A7RMKII I bought recently and I am sorry but the M240 is poor in comparison.

 

Leica glass is the best. I can't comprehend paying £5500 for a camera body and then using inferior glass does this not defeat the object of what the Leica M package can do.

Edited February 10, 2017 by ShaunD

[mca]

I agree with the notion that the M10 is not missing features. The M line is a niche product to a very specific type of customer. For many it's not even the only camera they have, so the lack of video or any other 'modern' feature is really not an issue nor a wish for this type of customer.

 

In my opinion, the type of customer that likes the M line is not only from a medium to high purchasing power but also usually of a certain age up, many times because their references are in the film M cameras and that's the experience they want, converted to the best possible image quality that a digital sensor can give us today. 

 

The modern full frame camera that Leica has to compete with the Sonys, Fujis, Olympus and the likes is the SL, and that's the camera that should get all the bells and whistles of modern technology, including video. And then you have the Q, for those who want a cheaper 1 lens alternative. 

 

It seems to me this is what they are trying to achieve and in my humble opinion, it makes a lot of sense. Personally, I love the M line and I hope it can continue to get developed in the same direction as the M10 has gone. 

[Guest]

I was never any good with video, so on a stills camera, I don't miss it. If I really need a video I have my phone, and as I am not the best videoer around iphone is good enough!

[Herr Barnack]

JMHO but video has no place on a digital Leica M.  People who want a do it all camera are hobbyists and will not cough up $6600 USD for a camera to begin with.  Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Sony, etc. have many camera bodies that sell for 1/4 to 1/3 the price of the M10 that will serve this market segment quite nicely.

 

I am quite pleased with my safari M-P but from day one, I was disappointed that it had the damn movie button embedded in the top plate.  It's like a turd perched on the right shoulder of a supermodel.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Carlos Danger

[Herr Barnack]

Apart from video, it might also be very useful to include a few sophistications like internet explorer, remote control, alarm clock, compass, thermometer and barometer, nearest bar locator... etc. These functions can be very helpful and may actually save someone's life, especially the last one.

 

And eight track tape.  It should be able to play eight track tapes. 

[edwardkaraa]

And eight track tape. It should be able to play eight track tapes.

Come on Carlos, you know very well they can't fit an eight track tape in there, but they can make it play MP3, possibly with a firmware update!

[digitalfx]

​- Video is a must on today's cameras.  A camera without it belong to the past.  I use video 'a little' when on holiday and as a tourist.  The video and the still camera is then 'in the same box'.  Compact and convenient.  When buying a Leica we always have to prepare ourselves for selling it again.  It's the young people buying 2.hand Leicas today.  They will insist on having video included.  No way I am going to buy a camera I will have problems selling to young people of today.

 

 

I shoot video every day and would absolutely love video functionality in this M...but I've also been shooting M cameras since the M3, and IMO this is the best digital M made. I would rather have a near perfect M, which is what Leica has created in the M10 than having limited video functionality like we had in the M240 forced into it. Leica has never done video right and I found the video in the M240 not worth using. 

 

If you really need video, Leica still makes the M240. If you want a better implemented version, you should look at the SL. The M10 is perfect without video.

 

​- Battery capacity is marginal on the M(240) and really 'bad' compared to competition.  Reducing it is going to create problems.  This must be solved!  What about having a big battery as an 'block add-on' at the bottom of the camera?  As the motors were attached on the analogue M's?

 

 

The battery capacity is just fine...there are quite a few reports from actual users. Why are you making assumptions that this is going g to create a problem? There is no problem to solve...Ive been using the camera for 3 weeks now with just one battery and not once have I had a "problem".  A block add on is completely counter to what makes this camera great. There are multiple discussions on the battery, including this:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268449-battery-life/page-3

 

Id suggest you read actual users comments rather than more uninformed speculation.

 

​- How good is a 'much better sensor'?  So good that no software created lens adjustments have to be made?  Can we use other brand lenses, like Zeiss and Voigtländer, without having purple egdes?

 

 

Do you think its possible to make a full frame camera this compact and have it work perfectly with every lens made? I think your expectations are not realistic. The sensor is better than all the previous M's...if its not good enough for your needs then thats a personal decision, the M10 isn't for everyone. I will say that I don't have any issues with any of my lenses and they all look better than my previous M's- YMMV. There is a thread on this topic if you do a search, complete with images of several lenses comparing the M10, M240 and Sony A7. Please take a little effort to search, all of your concerns have been addressed in this forum:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268488-corner-color-drift-on-m10/

Edited February 10, 2017 by digitalfx

[IronLion]

 I would love to have a slimmer M-body.  It confirms that Leica listens to customers having this fixed.  I haven't quite caught up with what Leica calls a 'better sensor'.  But it sounds good.   Better quality of high ISO settings is great.

 

​But still I don't find the improvements worth the cost of up-grading.  Due to:

 

​- Video is a must on today's cameras.  A camera without it belong to the past.  I use video 'a little' when on holiday and as a tourist.  The video and the still camera is then 'in the same box'.  Compact and convenient.  When buying a Leica we always have to prepare ourselves for selling it again.  It's the young people buying 2.hand Leicas today.  They will insist on having video included.  No way I am going to buy a camera I will have problems selling to young people of today.

 

​- Battery capacity is marginal on the M(240) and really 'bad' compared to competition.  Reducing it is going to create problems.  This must be solved!  What about having a big battery as an 'block add-on' at the bottom of the camera?  As the motors were attached on the analogue M's?

 

​- How good is a 'much better sensor'?  So good that no software created lens adjustments have to be made?  Can we use other brand lenses, like Zeiss and Voigtländer, without having purple egdes?

 

Okay- easy solution is to not upgrade then. 

[Ko.Fe.]

​- Video is a must on today's cameras.  A camera without it belong to the past.  I use video 'a little' when on holiday and as a tourist.  The video and the still camera is then 'in the same box'.  Compact and convenient.  When buying a Leica we always have to prepare ourselves for selling it again.  It's the young people buying 2.hand Leicas today.  They will insist on having video included.  No way I am going to buy a camera I will have problems selling to young people of today.

 

 

I checked on-line M10 size comparing to my M-E size. Same size and more weight. No video at both and it makes sense. I quit from "filming" with advanced digital cameras long time ago and never even tried it with even more advanced and modern cameras . To much hassle comparing to what IPhone does. Actually, for me if in tourist or home video mode, iPhone is superior to any photo camera.  

 

BTW, Don't know about London UK, but where I'm by the time most of the young ones will be able to afford used M10 Leica they ain't going to be young anymore.

Also few weeks ago I did on-line research for young people buying M9 in 2012-2015. Twenty something years old and they dedicated to photography, not videos. 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Ko.Fe.

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[edw]

The modern full frame camera that Leica has to compete with the Sonys, Fujis, Olympus and the likes is the SL, and that's the camera that should get all the bells and whistles of modern technology, including video. And then you have the Q, for those who want a cheaper 1 lens alternative. 

 

I'd disagree with you about the Q. It is not about being cheaper. It is better at what it does than any M, even the M10. It is more compact, it has excellent ISO and autofocus. It has macro mode. It makes a series of tradeoffs very different from any M. It's beautiful—and it takes beautiful photos. My Q is not a superfluous part of my camera line-up in the presence of an M. (It shoots video, by the way, though I have never used the feature except accidentally.)