harmen Posted March 2, 2017 Share #281 Posted March 2, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Distance from mount to sensor on an M is nearly 1cm more than Sony E. You could estimate where the sensor plane is even if not indicated with a symbol on the top plate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 2, 2017 Posted March 2, 2017 Hi harmen, Take a look here So how long before video capture functionality arrives?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
edw Posted March 2, 2017 Share #282 Posted March 2, 2017 Size is just an excuse if you ask me. Guess which camera does video below. Leica has simply decided to do a step backwards. Das Wesentliche has won. So much the better for those who like that. Now this thread is about "how long before video capture functionality arrives". My rather sad response is when pigs can fly but i may be wrong. Untitled-1.jpg I didn't get the impression Leica is looking for an excuse. And calling this a step backwards is wrong-headed—it could be just as easily be spun as a step forward in the quest to create the ultimate purpose-built rangefinder-based still photography tool. Where is the thread lamenting that Leica has missed an opportunity to include a snake game in the M10? It's a simple matter of updating the firmware, and so this frankly startling omission should very much on the docket for the next update. Not taking advantage of the screen and joystick to provide a feature present on fifteen year-old cameraphones speaks to Leica's incompetence—or perhaps its outright disdain for its customers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted March 2, 2017 Share #283 Posted March 2, 2017 And calling this a step backwards is wrong-headed—it could be just as easily be spun as a step forward in the quest to create the ultimate purpose-built rangefinder-based still photography tool. Indeed! I felt including video in the M240 was a step in the wrong direction, and was one of the reasons I never bought one. I was concerned with the direction Leica was taking the platform. But the M10 is a step back...in the right direction, returning the M to its roots and reaffirming my faith in the M system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 2, 2017 Share #284 Posted March 2, 2017 I didn't get the impression Leica is looking for an excuse. And calling this a step backwards is wrong-headed—it could be just as easily be spun as a step forward in the quest to create the ultimate purpose-built rangefinder-based still photography tool. [...] Next step forward could be an optical Visoflex then. Why bothering with those electronic things indeed. Leica could even eliminate any Visoflex. Just take a 13 years old R-D1, stick a red dot on it and you get the M11! Oops no, the R-D1 has an ugly flip-out LCD. Flip-out, go figure. Too forward that... Just kidding... a bit . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAK Posted March 2, 2017 Share #285 Posted March 2, 2017 I didn't get the impression Leica is looking for an excuse. And calling this a step backwards is wrong-headed—it could be just as easily be spun as a step forward in the quest to create the ultimate purpose-built rangefinder-based still photography tool. Where is the thread lamenting that Leica has missed an opportunity to include a snake game in the M10? It's a simple matter of updating the firmware, and so this frankly startling omission should very much on the docket for the next update. Not taking advantage of the screen and joystick to provide a feature present on fifteen year-old cameraphones speaks to Leica's incompetence—or perhaps its outright disdain for its customers. Indeed. Next will be a demand for apps and a Leica ecosystem, then complaints that it's a walled garden and how unfair that Nikon has a better browser. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edw Posted March 2, 2017 Share #286 Posted March 2, 2017 Indeed. Next will be a demand for apps and a Leica ecosystem, then complaints that it's a walled garden and how unfair that Nikon has a better browser. We're joking here, but I think you've stumbled upon something interesting: Why not downloadable camera profiles that support hooks at various stages in the image processing pipeline? I'd love to be able to activate a Monochrom "app" that desaturates the preview JPEG. Or applies other adjustments to the preview JPEG and to the DNG metadata. I try to avoid chimping (I'm a happy M-D owner) but it would be handy to be able to set up my M10 so the pictures are taken and stored on-card consistent with a given workflow. (Kodachrome or, sacre bleu!, Velvia apps, anyone?) In my work as a product designer I've found that making snarky, wise-ass comments can be a great way to come up with legitimately useful ideas. I think Leica could indeed develop a platform for developers and spawn a photographic app ecosystem. Imagine an app that adds the ability to cryptographically sign photos, something that Canon has offered—and at least one person here has expressed a desire for. Or imagine a three-channel histogram review "complication" (taking a cue from the Apple Watch). Something like this, done tastefully and thoughtfully, is much more interesting to me than adding a movie mode because (silent) movies are something that can be created with the on-chassis hardware. This is akin to adding a software hot shoe to the camera that expands the definition of what the M system is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted March 2, 2017 Share #287 Posted March 2, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think with the M10 Leica may be implemented a new strategy for each generation of cameras. The base model like the M10 won't have video, won't be a monochrome camera, and won't have the cosmetic improvements of the P models, and will have an LCD. I think we can then imagine 4 variants of the base model that have one basic change as follows: M10M - this model is basically the same as the M10, but has a monochrome sensor; coming out a year after the base model M10P - this has the cosmetic upgrades of a P model, but to add a bit more perhaps they will make it compatible with a grip and maybe bring out a new EVF at the same time: coming out about 18 months after the base model M10V - this is a video capable model in my scheme. Hopefully it has some ports for video and decent video capabilities. I see it coming out in a couple of years. M10D - this would be a version without the LCD; I see it coming out in about 2 and half years Then in about 3 or 3 and half years we should see the M11 and repeat the cycle. I would expect the M11 to get a nice sensor upgrade, but have the same rangefinder and processor as the M10, but then the M12 out to get an upgrade of the rangefinder and a new processor for increased speed, and so on. I think this upgrade schedule is sustainable and a good way for Leica to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAK Posted March 2, 2017 Share #288 Posted March 2, 2017 I think with the M10 Leica may be implemented a new strategy for each generation of cameras. The base model like the M10 won't have video, won't be a monochrome camera, and won't have the cosmetic improvements of the P models, and will have an LCD. I think we can then imagine 4 variants of the base model that have one basic change as follows: M10M - this model is basically the same as the M10, but has a monochrome sensor; coming out a year after the base model M10P - this has the cosmetic upgrades of a P model, but to add a bit more perhaps they will make it compatible with a grip and maybe bring out a new EVF at the same time: coming out about 18 months after the base model M10V - this is a video capable model in my scheme. Hopefully it has some ports for video and decent video capabilities. I see it coming out in a couple of years. M10D - this would be a version without the LCD; I see it coming out in about 2 and half years Then in about 3 or 3 and half years we should see the M11 and repeat the cycle. I would expect the M11 to get a nice sensor upgrade, but have the same rangefinder and processor as the M10, but then the M12 out to get an upgrade of the rangefinder and a new processor for increased speed, and so on. I think this upgrade schedule is sustainable and a good way for Leica to go. I don't see a video version. The other options you list are feasible without significant changes to the design/electronics including new holes in the case for ports and mics, video electronics, and quite likely a reversion to the thicker format for a larger battery, more buttons, and so on. I think Leica has made a decision on the M10 that it is not a video camera, and I am personally happy with that. It's a classic rangefinder for the M photographer who shoots stills. People who want/need video can look to the SL, the Q, or their iPhone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff S Posted March 2, 2017 Share #289 Posted March 2, 2017 I believe Leica will redo the hot shoe mic with speaker and hdmi connection for the M10 and claim this will dissipate heat and offer video down the road. Everybody will buy this hot shoe attachment 'just in case' you ever want to do a context video clip. They'll charge $1000 and make everybody who wants video super happy and make a whack of money too. Leica is a business. Not a peace organisation. Everything eventually is designed to boost profits. I agree with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lucan Posted March 2, 2017 Share #290 Posted March 2, 2017 I think with the M10 Leica may be implemented a new strategy for each generation of cameras. The base model like the M10 won't have video, won't be a monochrome camera, and won't have the cosmetic improvements M10M - this model is basically the same as the M10, but has a monochrome sensor; coming out a year after the base model M10P - this has the cosmetic upgrades of a P model, but to add a bit more perhaps they will make it compatible with a grip and maybe bring out a new EVF at the same time: coming out about 18 months after the base model M10V - this is a video capable model in my scheme. Hopefully it has some ports for video and decent video capabilities. I see it coming out in a couple of years. M10D - this would be a version without the LCD; I see it coming out in about 2 and half years Any chance of Leica M10 A~Z ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lucan Posted March 2, 2017 Share #291 Posted March 2, 2017 I am also on board this ship,are we anywhere near reaching any conclusions? Since the ship is in middle of water I dont want to jump off! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 30, 2017 Share #292 Posted March 30, 2017 I believe Leica will redo the hot shoe mic with speaker and hdmi connection for the M10 and claim this will dissipate heat and offer video down the road. Everybody will buy this hot shoe attachment 'just in case' you ever want to do a context video clip. They'll charge $1000 and make everybody who wants video super happy and make a whack of money too. Leica is a business. Not a peace organisation. Everything eventually is designed to boost profits. I agree with that. Well I would like this to happen but I have my doubts. Either way I want motion AND tethering back in the M. An optional grip for movies and tethering would be ideal and those that don't want it don't have to worry about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 31, 2017 Share #293 Posted March 31, 2017 Besides interchangeable lenses, what exactly are the advantages of the M240 video when every modern phone already has 4K video? Surely anyone really really serious about video would be carrying something better than the M for video. Gh4/5, Sony A7S. And if you don't want *serious* video your phone is in your pocket. And even those are getting better with dual lens technology and inbuilt stabilisers. I just don't see what a small, unstabilised camera with average video codecs, poor sound implementation and no flippy screen brings to the table. Yes, there are some who want video in an M because they don't want to carry another camera or they want to use M lenses. But you guys are in the minority. For serious video production the M240 doesn't compete so you'll need a significant upgrade to it's performance or choose something else. It'd be an interesting exercise to see how many M(240) users actually used the video function more than a couple of times. I'd suspect not that many. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted March 31, 2017 Share #294 Posted March 31, 2017 I have tried my Sony A7S for video. As a dedicated stills photographer I find shooting video a PITA mainly because one is 'locked' behind the camera for the extent of the shooting time. At least as a still photographer that is minimal. I my case, I get better video result from my GoPro, mainly because there is NO VF to hide behind or get stuck to. A very versatile technique for videoing, for those rare moments of needing video. I know dedicated videographers have more sophisticated needs, which, IMO, demand sophisticated gear. That seems to exclude Leica M's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lax Jought Posted March 31, 2017 Share #295 Posted March 31, 2017 It'd be an interesting exercise to see how many M(240) users actually used the video function more than a couple of times. I'd suspect not that many. Exactly. I've said numerous times in this thread: (i) I'm interested in video, (ii) I own an M240, and (iii) I don't use the video function because it sucks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 31, 2017 Share #296 Posted March 31, 2017 Besides interchangeable lenses, what exactly are the advantages of the M240 video when every modern phone already has 4K video? Surely anyone really really serious about video would be carrying something better than the M for video. Gh4/5, Sony A7S. And if you don't want *serious* video your phone is in your pocket. And even those are getting better with dual lens technology and inbuilt stabilisers. I just don't see what a small, unstabilised camera with average video codecs, poor sound implementation and no flippy screen brings to the table. Yes, there are some who want video in an M because they don't want to carry another camera or they want to use M lenses. But you guys are in the minority. For serious video production the M240 doesn't compete so you'll need a significant upgrade to it's performance or choose something else. It'd be an interesting exercise to see how many M(240) users actually used the video function more than a couple of times. I'd suspect not that many. Gordon Yes, but this is 2017, not the year the 240 saw the light. Then the video was perfectly adequate for the intended journalistic use. Now the world has moved on and I had hoped the M10 would have done too. Unfortunately it has not, so enter Panasonic. For me. And yes, I do use the video function from time to time for short supplementary clips. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lax Jought Posted March 31, 2017 Share #297 Posted March 31, 2017 Yes, but this is 2017, not the year the 240 saw the light. Then the video was perfectly adequate for the intended journalistic use. Now the world has moved on and I had hoped the M10 would have too. Exactly again. Except jaapv said it better than I did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 31, 2017 Share #298 Posted March 31, 2017 Yes, but this is 2017, not the year the 240 saw the light. Then the video was perfectly adequate for the intended journalistic use. Now the world has moved on and I had hoped the M10 would have too. Unfortunately it has not, so enter Panasonic. For me. And yes, I do use the video function from time to time for short supplementary clips. Ya reckon?? The M240 was released around the same era as the Panasonic GH3 and Sony A7S. The Leica never stood a chance. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted March 31, 2017 Share #299 Posted March 31, 2017 People who want or need video can look to the SL, the Q, or their iPhone. ... or the M (Typ 240) which for exactly this reason is not discontinued yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 31, 2017 Share #300 Posted March 31, 2017 Ya reckon?? The M240 was released around the same era as the Panasonic GH3 and Sony A7S. The Leica never stood a chance. Gordon Stood a chance for what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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