IkarusJohn Posted January 15, 2017 Share #21 Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Read the article, and it doesn't say a lot. I took three things from it: (1) I am not the only one to think that the M(240) lost the clarity of thought of the M9 - not sure if the M10 not having WiFi is something Thorsten knows, or if he is extrapolating that from his assumption that the M10 designation means Leica is pretending the M(240) never happened ... (2) Does Thorsten have the camera? He seems to be pouring cold water on a lot of expectations here, and he refers to further reviews "coming soon" - is he suggesting that he actually has the camera, and will be ready to release his review on the announcement of the camera by Leica? (3) Or is he just driving traffic to his website, and he knows nothing more than the rest of us? Cheers John Edited January 15, 2017 by IkarusJohn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here "Leica M10 - Expect Simplicity" (overgaard.dk). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
imants Posted January 15, 2017 Share #22 Posted January 15, 2017 It's just a whole lot of articulately worded mumbo jumbo to get att to his website .........all one has to do is look at who stared the thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 15, 2017 Share #23 Posted January 15, 2017 Read the article, and it doesn't say a lot. I took three things from it: (1) I am not the only one to think that the M(240) lost the clarity of thought of the M9 - not sure if the M10 not having WiFi is something Thorsten knows, or if he is extrapolating that from his assumption that the M10 designation means Leica is pretending the M(240) never happened ... (2) Does Thorsten have the camera? He seems to be pouring cold water on a lot of expectations here, and he refers to further reviews "coming soon" - is he suggesting that he actually has the camera, and will be ready to release his review on the announcement of the camera by Leica? (3) Or is he just driving traffic to his website, and he knows nothing more than the rest of us? Cheers John It is not impossible that he is beta-testing it. (and pushing the boundaries of his NDA) I for one would not be happy with Leica shrinking the M niche... I was hoping for a future-oriented developing of the RF concept. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 15, 2017 Share #24 Posted January 15, 2017 Read the article, and it doesn't say a lot. ... (2) Does Thorsten have the camera? He seems to be pouring cold water on a lot of expectations here, and he refers to further reviews "coming soon" - is he suggesting that he actually has the camera, and will be ready to release his review on the announcement of the camera by Leica?... Cheers John Just for the reason that he doesn't say a lot... I think it has it as beta tester... and prepares his audience to one of the first real reviews. The message on "simplicity" could refer to nothing really new on the RF/VF side... but who knows... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted January 15, 2017 Share #25 Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) Someone has to be testing it. Thorsten seems as fine a choice as anyone else to me. Whatever shows up its all good news to me. I can hang with my M240 for quite a while longer. And if its turns out that after four years the 240 winds up a branch, rather than part of the trunk of the M family tree, it doesn't diminish either the value or pleasure I continue to derive from it. Edited January 15, 2017 by Tailwagger 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted January 16, 2017 Share #26 Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) I'm certain that whatever the new M10 provides, it's implementation will derive more from the M typ 240/262 than any earlier M Leica has sold. It would be nice if it used the same batteries as the type 240/246/262 cameras since, at nearly $200 apiece, replacing one's battery set adds quite a bit to the cost of upgrading. And it's a good battery! Edited January 16, 2017 by ramarren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share #27 Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Thorsten, I love & enjouy reading Your pages very much! But as a (2x)M9-P & MM owner: What might bring Leica-future I don't have yet. For me & many others the hunt is over, there is no need for a M-callitwhatyouwant. 18MB sensor is enough, even if the next smartphone will have trillions of pixels. Of course we all hope that Leicas will have economic success, but except lenses I personally have all I need. Thomas I agree a long way. If we look back at the Leica M6, what more was there to do. Yet they came out with the Leica M7 which doesn't have any significant improvement over the best-selling Leica M6. In the digital age the market seem to request new editions. They've been able to withstand for four years (instead of three), and the size and some features might make it a best-seller. But also, many will be happy with the Leica M9 and Leica M 240 (and not to forget the Leica M 262 that has the WB button outside; which is quite good!). They could have gone back to the idea of upgrading the "Leica M" with a M 241 or M240.2 with improved buffer and such, but they decided not to go that way (which actually was the original idea: to improve gradually and not make actually new models). I did a Leica Q video review just last week on my YouTube channel "Magic of Light" and I noticed some people already ask when the next Leica Q will be out. There is no need for a new updated Leica Q, but somehow people expect it and I guess it halters sale on one side,; and a new model - no matter how insignificant the update is - will create new interest and more sale. Edited January 16, 2017 by Overgaard 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted January 16, 2017 Share #28 Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) I'm still unclear why the nomenclature needed to relegate the M240 and her sisters to an ignominy worse that the M5. But it's reassuring that Leica listened to end-users and returned to the Barnack path of simplicity. If this new M indeed sports the SL's sensor, or an updated version thereof, I do hope it doesn't end up the Achilles heal of this greatly anticipated move. Perhaps Edward Karaa or adamdewilde, (former) SL users or Thorsten himself care to illuminate us. Edited January 16, 2017 by james.liam 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted January 16, 2017 Share #29 Posted January 16, 2017 I'm still unclear why the nomenclature needed to relegate the M240 and her sisters to an ignominy worse that the M5. But it's reassuring that Leica listened to end-users and returned to the Barnack path of simplicity. If this new M indeed sports the SL's sensor, or an updated version thereof, I do hope it doesn't end up the Achilles heal of this greatly anticipated move. Perhaps Edward Karaa or adamdewilde, (former) SL users or Thorsten himself care to illuminate us. Of course I don't pretend to be an expert, but my impression is that the SL sensor has its own set of problems in color rendering, and quite different from the output of the M. I remember that Adam didn't like the SL color either. However I don't think we have any indication other than member speculation that the SL sensor will be in the upcoming M10. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 16, 2017 Share #30 Posted January 16, 2017 There is no need for a new updated Leica [insert model here], but somehow people expect it and I guess it halters sale on one side,; and a new model - no matter how insignificant the update is - will create new interest and more sale. Thing is a new model will make our images 'better' - or that's the dream. Why waste time taking inferior images when you can wait for the next best thing and finally take technically viable images? Whatever the new M is, it won't produce a creative spark without the determination of the photographer. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverover Posted January 16, 2017 Share #31 Posted January 16, 2017 I did a Leica Q video review just last week on my YouTube channel "Magic of Light" and I noticed some people already ask when the next Leica Q will be out. There is no need for a new updated Leica Q, but somehow people expect it and I guess it halters sale on one side,; and a new model - no matter how insignificant the update is - will create new interest and more sale. Your YouTube channel is helpful and informative, Thank you for creating the videos! Your comment about a Newer Model upgrade is also well taken in the form of the Leica T vs. the newly released TL. It appears to be the SAME camera with only an insignificant internal memory storage upgrade and a 55% Price increase over the price of the former T. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 16, 2017 Share #32 Posted January 16, 2017 If Thorsten has the Beta for testing, having signed an NDA, I cannot imagine Leica would be overjoyed by this thread. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 16, 2017 Share #33 Posted January 16, 2017 If Thorsten has the Beta for testing, having signed an NDA, I cannot imagine Leica would be overjoyed by this thread. Depends on the NDA and drip feed of info ..... not so long to go now and then we can all wander off with red faces . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 16, 2017 Share #34 Posted January 16, 2017 Of course I don't pretend to be an expert, but my impression is that the SL sensor has its own set of problems in color rendering, and quite different from the output of the M. I remember that Adam didn't like the SL color either. However I don't think we have any indication other than member speculation that the SL sensor will be in the upcoming M10. My experience with the SL is that the colours in SOOC raw files are more natural, delicate and subtle than the M240, in the same way as the latter camera's colours were better than the M9's. I know that many people prefer the bright, jolly colours of the M9 and CCD sensors, just as film users praise Kodachrome and many other film other stocks. My description for such rendering is unnatural, cartoon-like and unsubtle, but YMMV . I'm in the wait-and-see category for the M10, but if it has the SL's sensor and colours or better, then that would be in its favour. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted January 16, 2017 Share #35 Posted January 16, 2017 My experience with the SL is that the colours in SOOC raw files are more natural, delicate and subtle than the M240, in the same way as the latter camera's colours were better than the M9's. I know that many people prefer the bright, jolly colours of the M9 and CCD sensors, just as film users praise Kodachrome and many other film other stocks. My description for such rendering is unnatural, cartoon-like and unsubtle, but YMMV . I'm in the wait-and-see category for the M10, but if it has the SL's sensor and colours or better, then that would be in its favour. My experience differs in that at default settings in ACR the colors are punchy and a bit oversaturated when correctly exposed, but look muddy when underexposed and washed out when overexposed. I didn't like the overall palette and much prefer the M240 output. As for the M9, I had difficulties in obtaining a good color that I liked in many situations, but when the conditions were right, it was outstanding. Too finicky for my taste. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 16, 2017 Share #36 Posted January 16, 2017 Of course it will make our images a magnitude better - and better still with each firmware update, even if it only adds a lens 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 16, 2017 Share #37 Posted January 16, 2017 Of course it will make our images a magnitude better - and better still with each firmware update, even if it only adds a lens Hmm, is that irony? I recognise irony, but I don't think it is. It isn't scorn and mockery; I know that, it's fair game, usually. I think it must be sarcasm. It is sarcasm, isn't it? It certainly isn't a respectful response, now, is it ... just saying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 16, 2017 Share #38 Posted January 16, 2017 I'm surprised Leica will actually use the M10 name as Canon already use that. If the leaked images are real it appears we have what basically amounts to an M without the video function (which I know a lot of people on here said wasn't needed or wanted on an M anyway) or maybe it's buried in the menu's. Slimmer body with a more protruding lens mount and rear screen and presumably a new sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distagon Posted January 16, 2017 Share #39 Posted January 16, 2017 Having been using the SL for over a year now, I think it has the near prefect number of buttons, so that once you have customised them to your taste, you rarely need to delve into a menu other than the single function revealed by a button press, short or long. If the spy photos of the M10 are correct (and they may well just be someones Photoshop pastiche), it only shows 3 buttons on the back plus an ISO dial. To me that will mean that you have to delve into the layered menu system far more, in regular day to day use... Given the greater feature set of the SL, isn't it fair to say that it is more reliant on the buttons to access functions regularly? Isn't a Leica M is likely to be less menu-dependent? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 16, 2017 Share #40 Posted January 16, 2017 Hmm, is that irony? I recognise irony, but I don't think it is. It isn't scorn and mockery; I know that, it's fair game, usually. I think it must be sarcasm. It is sarcasm, isn't it? It certainly isn't a respectful response, now, is it ... just saying. Hmmm..it must be a bad hair day for your detection mechanisms. Thing is a new model will make our images 'better' - or that's the dream. Why waste time taking inferior images when you can wait for the next best thing and finally take technically viable images? Whatever the new M is, it won't produce a creative spark without the determination of the photographer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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