Rick Posted December 9, 2016 Share #181 Posted December 9, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Chris, You know that there are the camera guys on here and the social guys and the SJW guys. It has always been this way. Next thread I'm interested in is the one with the guys who actually bought the new M!!! RickM10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 Hi Rick, Take a look here Whenever the new M arrives, who's going to buy one?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
thighslapper Posted December 9, 2016 Share #182 Posted December 9, 2016 Let's face it ..... the only thing the M has going for it is that it is a Rangefinder. Leica put a digital sensor in what was designed as a film camera and have spent years trying to compensate for the problems that it created. They have been playing catch up ever since ....... and it is hard to see what innovations they can come up with that will equal other small cameras out there ..... let alone better them. They are stuck with the limitations imposed the RF and manual M lenses, so they have reached an evolutionary dead end. The M240 is already an excellent RF camera ....... and therefore you have only 2 ways to go ...... minor detail improvements ....... or adopt a definitive 'retro' attitude and make a virtue of sticking to basics and simplicity. I suspect we are going to see a definite drift towards the latter ....... and all the future real technical development is going to go into the S, SL & Q successors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 9, 2016 Share #183 Posted December 9, 2016 Nobody uses slide rule here? Given the fact that Leica's lag behind in electronics (well, M specifically) but excel in mechanicals, I guess slide rule discussion is more appropriate than calculators. You bet... it's REALLY appropriate HERE Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/267124-whenever-the-new-m-arrives-whos-going-to-buy-one/?do=findComment&comment=3163704'>More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 9, 2016 Share #184 Posted December 9, 2016 Let's face it ..... the only thing the M has going for it is that it is a Rangefinder. Leica put a digital sensor in what was designed as a film camera and have spent years trying to compensate for the problems that it created. They have been playing catch up ever since ....... and it is hard to see what innovations they can come up with that will equal other small cameras out there ..... let alone better them. They are stuck with the limitations imposed the RF and manual M lenses, so they have reached an evolutionary dead end. The M240 is already an excellent RF camera ....... and therefore you have only 2 ways to go ...... minor detail improvements ....... or adopt a definitive 'retro' attitude and make a virtue of sticking to basics and simplicity. I suspect we are going to see a definite drift towards the latter ....... and all the future real technical development is going to go into the S, SL & Q successors. Ha. It is the new digital cameras that have reached a dead end of sorts. No matter how much technology they keep cramming into new cameras they still aren't going to out-run the M when it comes to making images. The M is so simple it is beyond most folks that need a computer in their camera to take pictures. As long as the M sensor is decent, and it already is, it will produce great photography. So, like it will always be, pick your way of producing photographs. Simple with an understanding of the basics or spend your whole time trying to figure out what the camera is doing? I pick simple. Which is complex and perplexing to most folks! Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonomaBear Posted December 9, 2016 Share #185 Posted December 9, 2016 Nobody uses slide rule here? Given the fact that Leica's lag behind in electronics (well, M specifically) but excel in mechanicals, I guess slide rule discussion is more appropriate than calculators. My dad had one. I have used it only out of curiosity when I was a kid. Now I'm feeling old! I used my grandfather's K&E log-log-decilog when I started college because I could not afford a new one. My dad was a business major, never used it. Five years later my employer bought me a new contraption from Texas Instruments! Still have the K&E... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Lowe Posted December 10, 2016 Share #186 Posted December 10, 2016 It entirely depends on its capabilities vs. the SL. Namely: GPS, wi-fi, better metering, 1/8000 shutter, lag free live view, quick start up time, clean ISO 6400, dual card slots Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 10, 2016 Share #187 Posted December 10, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Let's face it ..... the only thing the M has going for it is that it is a Rangefinder. Leica put a digital sensor in what was designed as a film camera and have spent years trying to compensate for the problems that it created. They have been playing catch up ever since ....... and it is hard to see what innovations they can come up with that will equal other small cameras out there ..... let alone better them. They are stuck with the limitations imposed the RF and manual M lenses, so they have reached an evolutionary dead end. The M240 is already an excellent RF camera ....... and therefore you have only 2 ways to go ...... minor detail improvements ....... or adopt a definitive 'retro' attitude and make a virtue of sticking to basics and simplicity. I suspect we are going to see a definite drift towards the latter ....... and all the future real technical development is going to go into the S, SL & Q successors. Does it really matter whether one sticks film or a sensor into a Leica M?I think not. The camera concept remains the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 10, 2016 Share #188 Posted December 10, 2016 I don't quite see the problems Leica would be trying to compensate for. They're just trying to make the best compact rangefinder using the best compact lenses as they always did. Not sure what film or digital has to do with that. For how long did we hear that TTL cameras should kill rangefinders? That's what some benevolent people kept repeating me when i bought my M4 in the seventies. They did not hold their breath for that long fortunately for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Black Posted December 10, 2016 Share #189 Posted December 10, 2016 Fair enough, but surely the beauty of its implementation as an additional feature that some people value forcoccasional use is that it is so unobtrusive that if you don't use it you can genuinely forget that it's there. I made no statement or proposal (in my post) to remove video from the M, I just don't use it (video functions). Fortunately Leica did implement video in a way that somehow detracted or lessened the camera/stills part of the M. If they want to include, that's fine - provided the M isn't somehow lessened by its inclusion (admittedly, that is a very subjective evaluation). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted December 10, 2016 Share #190 Posted December 10, 2016 Nobody uses slide rule here? Given the fact that Leica's lag behind in electronics (well, M specifically) but excel in mechanicals, I guess slide rule discussion is more appropriate than calculators. My dad had one. I have used it only out of curiosity when I was a kid. I still have my college slide rule, a foot-long plastic job in a cheapo vinyl sleeve. Kept the directions pamphlet too, thankfully, in case I ever want to use it, as I forgot long ago. Those were all we could use in college exams, because few people owned electronic calculators and they were very pricey. I had a TI which did basic maths plus quare roots and scientific notation. Cost $125, which was a crap-ton of money in the early 70s. As for the M10/11 whatever it will be called, I have no clue if I'll get one, but if I do it will be as with the M240, when they are available as demos or certified pre-owned. There's no way I'm ever paying new Leica prices again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted December 10, 2016 Share #191 Posted December 10, 2016 ... Not sure what film or digital has to do with that. .... Digital sensors do have issues with M lenses, particularly short ones. Remember the magenta sides and corners and the Italian Flag? Most of those issues are now resolved in-camera, most of the time, but they still lurk there, possibly making it difficult to use sensors with a signifcantly higher resolution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share #192 Posted December 10, 2016 So, like it will always be, pick your way of producing photographs. Simple with an understanding of the basics or spend your whole time trying to figure out what the camera is I pick simple. Which is complex and perplexing to most folks! Rick Rick, agree again. I use the M for work in the same way that I have for over forty years. Zone focus, metering off highlight areas, a small number of focal lengths to cover most assignments, and light enough and small enough to take anywhere while remaining full frame. If the new M maintains this tradition and refines it it will have a place in my camera bag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 10, 2016 Share #193 Posted December 10, 2016 Digital sensors do have issues with M lenses, particularly short ones. Remember the magenta sides and corners and the Italian Flag? Most of those issues are now resolved in-camera, most of the time, but they still lurk there, possibly making it difficult to use sensors with a signifcantly higher resolution. Yes, completely true, and film has its issues to. What I meant, however, is that the Gestalt of the camera is not determined by the capturing medium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted December 10, 2016 Share #194 Posted December 10, 2016 As time goes by, and I do have Leica GAS, the more I think that I'll stick with the M9. I didn't need or want video or LiveView, I certainly don't need wifi... or GPS... seriously, who shoots with an M and needs those things ? The only improvements I would like to have would be a much quieter shutter and possibly higher iso... and even that would be a real luxury. I really hope they stick with the "retro" line for the M and use some other camera (SL ?) for all the gizmo geeks. Or they can just buy a Sony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted December 10, 2016 Share #195 Posted December 10, 2016 seriously, who shoots with an M and needs those things ? Serious photographers maybe ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted December 10, 2016 Share #196 Posted December 10, 2016 Serious photographers maybe ? Please define serious photographer ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted December 10, 2016 Share #197 Posted December 10, 2016 Is serious photography serious enough? (To paraphrase John Cage who said it about music) I like to have my pictures geotagged. It helps when searching for an image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted December 10, 2016 Share #198 Posted December 10, 2016 ... seriously, who shoots with an M and needs those things ? ... Seriously, who needs more than one focal length or more than one exposure time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted December 10, 2016 Share #199 Posted December 10, 2016 Seriously, who needs more than one focal length or more than one exposure time? See, these two are both inherently connected to photography. As far as I know wifi and gps are not. It's pretty obvious that you wrote this reply trying to look smart. If you really did not understand my point, let me put it into simple words that you can hopefully grasp. There are countless reports where professional photographers say that they use Canon/Nikon/Sony/Whatever for their professional assignments and an M for personal photography and enjoy the pure simplicity of it. Now, I can fully understand why some professional photographers can make good use of all the gizmos. But most of the photographers out in the field, needing instant geotagging and sending pictures back to base do not use a Leica M. I'm not saying that some professionals do not use M for professional work, but I would bet that in a large majority of these cases, they do not require wifi or gps. I agree that geotagging helps with searching... but even so, do you really need the precision of a gps ? Is it really that difficult to tag your pictures ? Keep the M simple, clean, pure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share #200 Posted December 10, 2016 But most of the photographers out in the field, needing instant geotagging and sending pictures back to base do not use a Leica M. I'm not saying that some professionals do not use M for professional work, but I would bet that in a large majority of these cases, they do not require wifi or gps. [...] Keep the M simple, clean, pure. Ian - agree on both counts. If you're a photojournalist, in today's instant news-feed world, you need wifi and geotagging. If you're working on less time-pressured and intimate assignments (which is where the M comes in in my experience) then they're less significant. If I was in a warzone (and thank god I'm not!) I'd be using CanNikon kit or an iPhone. Returning to that war-zone to document what happens as people rebuild their lives (something I've done in Boznia and Herzegovina), the M comes into its own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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