Whenever the new M arrives, who's going to buy one?

[Peter H]

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A rangefinder "sees" outside the lens. Its accuracy doesn't depend on aperture and DoF

 

 

 

In the X-Pro 2 you have a clear window with frame-lines that are set automatically according to which lens is attached. You have a choice of focussing methods including autofocus and split-image. You can display a small inset-EVF patch in the bottom right-hand corner (which is the corner most likely to be obscured if you're using a larger lens) for magnified focussing or focus peaking, or you can switch to full evf with the full range of focus methods available. There's a lever on the front that is almost identical to the frame-line lever on an M camera that makes these changes incredibly easily as you're looking through the viewfinder. It's hard to do justice to how well it works and it is unique, and allows accurate focussing in any conditions including extremes that might defeat either an OVF or an EVF, and I find it a joy to use. 

[Martin B]

Summarizing what I stated earlier, I would find a new M interesting for me with:

 

+ about 36 MP full frame sensor with equivalent dynamic range of Sony A7R / A7R II

+ hybrid focusing with rangefinder and EVF

+ really good with ISO 50 and 25 (real ISO, not calculated). I would compromise with the high ISO range for having this low ISO capability!

+ optional: tilting LCD screen (I saw it as advantage especially for macro photography from low angle)

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[cirke]

A rangefinder "sees" outside the lens. Its accuracy doesn't depend on aperture and DoF

 

seeing outside the lens is not necessary and even disturbing , I like to shoot 100 %what I see

Edited December 8, 2016 by siangue

[Martin B]

seeing outside the lens is not necessary and even disturbing , I like to shoot 100 %what I see

 

I have to disagree with this - I find especially this a big advantage of shooting with my film M cameras versus my mirrorless A7R. It helped me a few times to be able to see what is coming into the frame before releasing the shutter.

[Peter H]

In the X-Pro 2 you have a clear window with frame-lines that are set automatically according to which lens is attached. You have a choice of focussing methods including autofocus and split-image. You can display a small inset-EVF patch in the bottom right-hand corner (which is the corner most likely to be obscured if you're using a larger lens) for magnified focussing or focus peaking, or you can switch to full evf with the full range of focus methods available. There's a lever on the front that is almost identical to the frame-line lever on an M camera that makes these changes incredibly easily as you're looking through the viewfinder. It's hard to do justice to how well it works and it is unique, and allows accurate focussing in any conditions including extremes that might defeat either an OVF or an EVF, and I find it a joy to use. 

 

 

 

PS (with apologies for quoting myself but i can't edit the post any longer) : in OVF mode you can adjust the size of the framelines to increase or reduce their coverage and therefore the extent of the view outside the frameline.

 

Along with the shutter speed dial, direct iso control dial within it, and aperture rings on the lenses, I can't think of any other camera that is so simple to use (including Ms) whilst offering such great versatility. I also like the fact that I can make all the adjustments I need while the camera is at my eye. 

 

This is where the M needs to improve: it is certainly not a question of bells and whistles for the sake of it. There's nothing as elegant-looking as an M and the feel in the hand is sublime though it is heavy-ish now for what it is though that is part of its appeal.  But I certainly feel there are areas in which its simplicity is in some respects more a mirage than a reality given the progress that has become possible in recent years.

 

Given that AF and image stabilisation are not likely to be part of the M system, it really does deserve the very best viewfinder arrangements available, which must include an immediately available combination of superb OVF and EVF options.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Peter H

[wattsy]

seeing outside the lens is not necessary and even disturbing , I like to shoot 100 %what I see

 

 

Fair enough but then why would you consider a rangefinder? The very essence of a rangefinder is that it provides only the most minimal of visual disruption between what you see with your own eyes and what you imagine to be the photograph being taken. Personally, I would consider stopping taking photographs if my only option was a camera with a TTL view.

Edited December 8, 2016 by wattsy

[lct]

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Choice for an RF or TTL camera is a matter of tastes but Fuji digital cameras have simply nothing to do with rangefinders. I have one (X-E2) it's a good little cam but rangefinder it is not. Same for X-pro 2 which is a TTL camera. But i have nothing to teach you here folks of course.

[willeica]

PS (with apologies for quoting myself but i can't edit the post any longer) : in OVF mode you can adjust the size of the framelines to increase or reduce their coverage and therefore the extent of the view outside the frameline.

 

Along with the shutter speed dial, direct iso control dial within it, and aperture rings on the lenses, I can't think of any other camera that is so simple to use (including Ms) whilst offering such great versatility. I also like the fact that I can make all the adjustments I need while the camera is at my eye. 

 

This is where the M needs to improve: it is certainly not a question of bells and whistles for the sake of it. There's nothing as elegant-looking as an M and the feel in the hand is sublime though it is heavy-ish now for what it is though that is part of its appeal.  But I certainly feel there are areas in which its simplicity is in some respects more a mirage than a reality given the progress that has become possible in recent years.

 

Given that AF and image stabilisation are not likely to be part of the M system, it really does deserve the very best viewfinder arrangements available, which must include an immediately available combination of superb OVF and EVF options.

 

I agree fully Peter. We can only hope that Leica uses some of the physical design features of the X-Pro 2 in the next M. I have both the M240 and the X-Pro 2 (and many other cameras, mainly Leicas) but the latter is from an ergonomic point of view one of the nicest cameras to use that I have ever had. The nearest I can think of in the Leica world is the original M3 which, for me, provides the nicest user experience of all Leicas.

 

William

[johnwolf]

I use my Ms mostly with zone focusing. When I combine the Voigtlander 25 with an X-Pro and zone focusing, the experience is very M-like.

 

Quickly raising the camera to the right eye and seeing the world through a bright optical finder and framelines gets to the heart of the RF experience for me. Besides Ms, no other digital camera offers that. 

 

John  

Edited December 8, 2016 by johnwolf

[chris_tribble]

Summarizing what I stated earlier, I would find a new M interesting for me with:

 

+ about 36 MP full frame sensor with equivalent dynamic range of Sony A7R / A7R II

+ hybrid focusing with rangefinder and EVF

+ really good with ISO 50 and 25 (real ISO, not calculated). I would compromise with the high ISO range for having this low ISO capability!

+ optional: tilting LCD screen (I saw it as advantage especially for macro photography from low angle)

I fear that won't be getting the 36 MP sensor, or the hybrid EVF or the tilting screen.  Good ISO looks as if it will be likely.  Sounds like a shift across to Fuji or a wait for the M15... 

Edited December 8, 2016 by chris_tribble

[Martin B]

I fear that won't be getting the 36 MP sensor, or the hybrid EVF or the tilting screen.  Good ISO looks as if it will be likely.  Sounds like a shift across to Fuji or a wait for the M15... 

 

This is my realistic expectation, too. I just wrote out what would be my personal preference - otherwise I am doing fine with the gear I currently have. It is unlikely that I will upgrade any of my camera gear next year. BTW, I like what Fuji offers but wouldn't go with it for one simple reason - no full frame sensor. I am not a fan of APS-C sensors since I often prefer to shoot very wide. So far for digital my choice has been Canon DSLR (until 2014) and since Sony mirrorless. Leica M is my choice for film.

[chris_tribble]

... a further thought.  If the M10 really does have a .72 finder (as opposed to the current .68), with the implication that lenses longer than 50mm will be a bit easier to focus (and the downside that 28mm framelines will be very tight) would this positively or negatively influence your decision?  I know it would strengthen my interest.

Edited December 8, 2016 by chris_tribble

[lct]

Not mine as i find the M240 easier to focus than my 0.72x cameras. With a modern EVF we would have pretty well what we (at least i) expected four years ago i.e. best of both RF and TTL worlds. YMMV.

[LocalHero1953]

... a further thought.  If the M10 really does have a .72 finder (as opposed to the current .68), with the implication that lenses longer than 50mm will be a bit easier to focus (and the downside that 28mm framelines will be very tight) would this positively or negatively influence your decision?  I know it would strengthen my interest.

Not significantly. For the longer end I now rely on the SL. With the Elmarit-M 28mm, and a recently acquired 21mm SEM, I would rather have the capability at the wide end. I happily use the Summicron-M 75 AA on the M240, and I don't often use the Summicron-M 90 AA now except for occasional headshots; I will sell it when the Summicron-SL 90 comes along.

[cirke]

Fair enough but then why would you consider a rangefinder? The very essence of a rangefinder is that it provides only the most minimal of visual disruption between what you see with your own eyes and what you imagine to be the photograph being taken. Personally, I would consider stopping taking photographs if my only option was a camera with a TTL view.

I don't consider a RF I had a M9 and I have a M240, I use the M240 with EVF

I have a M only for small 24x36 camera,  perfect lenses and build quality 

actualy there is nothing similar, if something comes I shall certainly change for it

 

if I could get the same quality with my iPhone I'll shoot only with iPhone

 

The very essence of a rangefinder

 

Sorry but I don't understand at all, I even don't know what essence can be

Edited December 8, 2016 by siangue

[mmx_2]

http://leicarumors.com/2016/12/08/leica-m10-to-be-announced-on-january-18th-2017.aspx/

[wattsy]

I don't consider a RF I had a M9 and I have a M240, I use the M240 with EVF

I have a M only for small 24x36 camera,  perfect lenses and build quality 

actualy there is nothing similar, if something comes I shall certainly change for it

 

 

Great. Go for it.

[Jeff S]

http://leicarumors.com/2016/12/08/leica-m10-to-be-announced-on-january-18th-2017.aspx/

 

Just for those who don't bother to open links....The Rumors site says it's going to announced on January 18th, 2017.

 

Jeff

Edited December 8, 2016 by Jeff S

[keithlaban.co.uk]

Whatever it is, please, give us a mature product and give us the option to buy it on announcement, not six months or more  down the line.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

[...] give us the option to buy it on announcement [...]

 

I would not hold my breath