eujin Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2301 Posted January 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just played with the new M10 at my local dealer...wasn't expecting them to have demo units on announcement day (I mostly ducked in to get out of the rain), so it was pretty exciting to hold one and fire off a few casual test shots. My immediate impressions: 1. Visually, it looks a tad smaller. But physically, holding it in your hand, you really feel the difference. This is especially true if you're used to the size of the M240 generation. I have an M240-P and Monochrom (M9) that I use on a daily basis; I also have an M4-P. The M10 in the hand feels just like my M4-P. On paper, 3mm seems like a tiny, no-big-deal margin, but to me it's a very pleasant difference. Folks with bigger hands than I might feel differently. 2. The ISO knob is cool; not sure how much of a real world big deal this will be for people, but it's well thought out and nicely implemented. Impossible to accidentally change ISO settings because you have to pull up on it very deliberately to change the values. No, I can't imagine that you can change ISO without looking at the dial. I do think it's great that you can now change ISO without turning the camera on. 3. Weight is certainly lighter, but not a huge difference. If anything, the smaller size in hand is going to be more noticeable. It's certainly nowhere near as light as my M4-P. 4. Shutter makes a sound like the one in the M262. It's more metallic compared to my M240-P, which to me has a more damped sound. 5. Viewfinder, as noted, has the slightly higher magnification. It looks great, but if no one told me about this, I doubt I would have noticed. I personally find the viewfinder in my M240-P very good. The rangefinder patch is ever so slightly brighter in the M10. In terms of framelines, I was shooting with my Elmarit 28mm and honestly didn't really pay that much attention to them. 6. The new On/Off switch feels good. Didn't realize the drive modes being integrated into the On/Off switch was such an issue for people; I think I've left mine in self-timer once by accident. That said, I think that's probably a nice change as I almost never use "C" and self-timer is a pretty deliberate setting that I won't mind going into the menu for. 7. Color rendition seems cooler/less warm than M240. BIG CAVEAT: I'm judging this on the rear screen and won't have a real idea of this until I look at the files in LR. I only got to shoot in the store as it was still raining outside. 8. Button layout and menu is great. No need to RTFM. That's about it for first impressions. I didn't put myself on the pre-order ... but that's mostly because I just got my M240-P in September! If I was shopping for a digital M to shoot color with, this is pretty much a no-brainer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 Hi eujin, Take a look here Leica M 10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
imants Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2302 Posted January 19, 2017 It's my m8 that is on the death bed for film I still have a CL.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanidel Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2303 Posted January 19, 2017 I like it. Smaller, better viewfinder, ISO dial, bigger screen, less buttons. I would have preferred the ISO dial to be a wheel just next to the speed one. That way, the left hand takes care of focus and aperture and right one speed and ISO. A split second gain sometimes counts in street photography. I'd prefer a CCD, but the high ISO capability of the CMOS is an interesting trade-off. What I don't like is the price. I remember paying €5'500 for the M9, now we are already at close to €7'000. When does it stop ? . I shoot thousands of pictures yearly, absolutely love the M system, but I can't keep up with the price increases. So I'll stick to my M9 for now and maybe in a few years when used M10's get to an affordable price, I'll get one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distagon Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2304 Posted January 19, 2017 But with deepest sad i see that its the Dead End of M system in nearest future. Leica did not introduced nothing revolutionary in new M and I don't think that rangefinder technology has the capacity for revolutions at all. You can probably do some minor user friendly cosmetic changes to support current users of M lenses and owners of M lenses from film era, but you can't make anything new since M9. M10 is crossroad for me - I don't think that i will invest more money in next Leica M lens with the same willingness as i had when M9 was introduced.I have enough lenses to use. The question is - once M is dead end in terms of further development, what system can substitute it - SL or QL or MQ, whatever you may call it. Ed, I really appreciate where you're coming from.However, given the intrinsic strengths of a rangefinder, it could well have had more life left in it if well handled. I know many would disagree, but I think a hybrid OVF-EVF-optoelectronic rangefinder could have breathed fresh life into the techology. Leica had the patent and competence but chose not to implement, perhaps due to resource allocation decisions as you suggest. This new flagship M10, as a slightly updated and improved M240 design, does suggest a lack of will to back rangefinder cameras with R&D and innovative product development. It remains a beautiful camera but is hobbled in comparison with what it might have been. I know many will disagree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
insideline Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2305 Posted January 19, 2017 "Hobbled"? The majority of Leica's M years were spent as film bodies, yet with this new iteration in this relatively new Digital age we now have an ISO range (very clean at that) that was unthinkable in film, add to that much greater dynamic range than film, improved colors, quicker to use, simpler menu and all packaged in a body the same size as my LHSA M6. Seems incredible to me. With these specs rivaling or even better than my M246, I await the Monochrom version with great anticipation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2306 Posted January 19, 2017 Nothing on the dioptry range with new EVF -3/ +3 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2307 Posted January 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) The M10 is yet outdated compared to modern mirrorless cameras but it is appealing in classic mode certainly. I had the same feeling about the M240 in 2012 but we suspected that the latter would keep its slow EVF then. I don't know if the M10 will gain a faster EVF soon or late but for now i will pass for the third time after the T and the SL i'm afraid. I will keep my M8.2 & M240 though and i still use my M and R lenses on Sony and Fuji cameras anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2308 Posted January 19, 2017 And your A7 ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oronet commander Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2309 Posted January 19, 2017 More than the end or the final limit of the M line, I see this as an statement from Leica: "this is the M as we envision it, don't expect big changes from it". That's fine to me, but it should come together with another statement: "for you who own and love M lenses but want a more modern approach we're developing a new line of cameras without the restrictions imposed by tradition or optical rangefinder". That would remove any limit to future M lenses production. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2310 Posted January 19, 2017 It's possible that alternative may just be the SL ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2311 Posted January 19, 2017 I don't want to rain on anyones parade but is the ultrasound sensor cleaning system is very hard to implement on M? Does it require the additional space in the body ? Its not material for sure but anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oronet commander Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2312 Posted January 19, 2017 It's possible that alternative may just be the SL ... Yes it is possible, but not in the mind of those who want small size and weight, I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2313 Posted January 19, 2017 Yes it is possible, but not in the mind of those who want small size and weight, I'm afraid. Agreed; but Leica seems to have decided that if small size and weight are drivers, use M lenses and the OVF ... I know I've said this before (and I don't want to be accused of bleating), but the M is all about its fantastic M lenses WITH the optical rangefinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jvansmit Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2314 Posted January 19, 2017 I've been out of the M fold for over a year now after buying a Q but kept my old 28mm Summicron.... 'just in case'. I'm now seriously tempted by the M10 At least one extra stop of ISO and an ISO dial Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2315 Posted January 19, 2017 No M10 sales brochure available for downloading? I ask because it was the first M9 sales brochure that got me interested in that camera: the pictures from Cuba did it — here was a photographer shooting a digital camera in harsh, bright tropical light, just what I was interested in; so I bought my first M9 in Paris and a month later had the first cracked sensor... _______________ Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distagon Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2316 Posted January 19, 2017 Some may fear that it just stays an M and doesn't become an M-SL-A7-XT-1-HD1.Couldn't anyone have made the same argument about developing the first digitsl M?It is not as though there is some pure definition of M, though many assert so. Is digital far from the essence of M? An LCD? LiveView? A hybrid OVF-EVF-rangefinder? The church of M has been broad enough to cater for many designs and many preferences, but seems now to be limited to an upgraded M240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYBORA Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2317 Posted January 19, 2017 Delivery started ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imants Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2318 Posted January 19, 2017 No M10 sales brochure available for downloading? I ask because it was the first M9 sales brochure that got me interested in that camera: the pictures from Cuba did it — here was a photographer shooting a digital camera in harsh, bright tropical light, just what I was interested in; so I bought my first M9 in Paris and a month later had the first cracked sensor... _______________ Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine Not sure if bochures are allowed in Argentina Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2319 Posted January 19, 2017 Couldn't anyone have made the same argument about developing the first digitsl M? It is not as though there is some pure definition of M, though many assert so. Is digital far from the essence of M? An LCD? LiveView? A hybrid OVF-EVF-rangefinder? The church of M has been broad enough to cater for many designs and many preferences, but seems now to be limited to an upgraded M240. It depends whether one takes "M" for "Messsucher". Digital storage of photos didn't change the rangefinder. Of course no user has any duty to stick with the rangefinder, there are many alternatives on the market. May be one day the traditional rangefinder concept becomes redundant - it's already old fashioned and irrelevant when you look at the whole market. If one is happy to dispense the rangefinder it would be strange to uphold a certain outward design just for the design's sake to call it "M". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2320 Posted January 19, 2017 Not sure if bochures are allowed in Argentina Oh, I'm not in Argentina; I'm in Thailand. But this system seems to inject the first country in the list if you don't specify one. Weird. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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