Yet again another Leica disappointment

[ynp]

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People who are leaving the S line... What MF system are you looking to replace it with?

I need a multishot back. It means either Sinar or Hasselblad-H.

If there is a multishot LeicaS, I will reconsider.

 

 

 

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[xiaubauu2009]

I am planning to get out of the S line for the 2nd time as well. I have brought my 100mp back, Leica S and 2 sigma DPs to this Japan trip. So far. I find the DP Quattro more than held up their own against Leica. So. Who want a 007 and 4 lens?

[Georges]

This is about the most depressing tread I have been reading lately !!

 

I found finally a buyer for my H4D40 (at a very reasonable price). We are planning to meet this week. I was planning to use the money for buying a NEW 006 for 8,000 dollars.

 

I am not sure anymore that this is a good move. 

 

Over the last 4 years, I had only one issue with the AF on my HC 100mm. It was repaired in 4 weeks for a cost of 500 dollars. Not cheap, but at least fast. My other 3 lenses never faced any issue, nor did the camera.

 

Woow, this is going to be a difficult call. 

[John McMaster]

None of my Leica repairs have cost me anything ;-) For my use I still see nothing else that takes my fancy, will see if anything unexpected is announced by any company in the next few weeks...

 

john

[erlingmm]

This is about the most depressing tread I have been reading lately !!

 

I found finally a buyer for my H4D40 (at a very reasonable price). We are planning to meet this week. I was planning to use the money for buying a NEW 006 for 8,000 dollars.

 

I am not sure anymore that this is a good move. 

 

Over the last 4 years, I had only one issue with the AF on my HC 100mm. It was repaired in 4 weeks for a cost of 500 dollars. Not cheap, but at least fast. My other 3 lenses never faced any issue, nor did the camera.

 

Woow, this is going to be a difficult call. 

 

 

While I sympathize and understand the frustration of the posters here who have had problems, especially with the lenses, I suspect that the impression from this thread (and forum) may not be representative. Some people also post repeatedly in similar threads.

 

I have had all the S cameras over a period of 5 years, from S2 via S006 to S007 without any problems. I have travelled with the system in cities in Europe, savannas in Africa, New York and California, humid&hot Havana and ice cold Northern Norway. I have 5 S lenses, and yes, 2 of them have had problems (not while traveling, 1 AF, 1 aperture not closing), both repaired by Leica at no cost. I also have had problems with M models and lenses

 

There is no reason to deny that the S lenses have an AF problem, probably due to a construction error. This will be repaired by Leica at no cost. In my opinion Leica should have improved the construction and made a (voluntary) recall like they did with the first Monochrom. I can understand that the relaibility is an issue for professional shooters, though.

 

Still, it is a fantastic system, and I have no desire for anything else. If you have 2-3 lenses, maybe one of them a 3rd party, you should be safe.

 

I hope this noise does not harm the S system, it would be catastrophic if we get a "R type" closedown. Ultimately it is of course Leica's sole responsibility to create confidence in the system, but I do not think the repeated postings here do much good. Complaints should primarily be directed to your dealer and to Leica directly, but again, I understand the frustration, especially when repair cycles are too long.

 

Again, it is a fantastic system, and I believe for most of us who use and love it.

[John McMaster]

I know when I was talking here about my 120 macro with AF failure I got a PM from Leica asking about the service....

 

john

[Jeff S]

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I hope this noise does not harm the S system, it would be catastrophic if we get a "R type" closedown. Ultimately it is of course Leica's sole responsibility to create confidence in the system, but I do not think the repeated postings her do much good. Complains should primarily be directed to your dealer and to Leica directly, but again, I understand the frustration, especially when repair cycles are too long.

 

 

Similar 'noise' here on other issues....M8 IR, M8/9 LCD monitors, M9 sensor corrosion, etc....was necessary before Leica ultimately responded officially in each instance.  Stefan Daniel even responded personally on the forum after all the uproar on the sensor corrosion issue, acknowledging the forum concerns...  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/244082-leica-upgrade-program-for-m9-corrosion-of-sensor/  Something similar is needed on the S, and all will calm down.

 

Until Leica learns to be proactive, and not drag their heels, I see no reason to stop.  They clearly know about these issues without the forum frustrations....but nothing formal typically happens without it.  I'm surprised it's taken so long on the S....there are already at least a half dozen threads on the same issues.  The only response so far has been weak, especially if they know the specific problem and have a fix.....if not, that's another concern.

 

Jeff

[alan.y]

especially if they know the specific problem and have a fix.....if not, that's another concern.

 

I guess the worst interpretation of Leica's silence is that there is really no fix beyond redesigning the whole lens lineup. 

 

I find that hard to believe, but then again, if a random shop in Shanghai has learnt to replace broken plastic gears with metal ones, why can't Leica?

 

Is it that switching to a more durable material in one part messes up the tolerances and durability of all the rest?

[ynp]

I know when I was talking here about my 120 macro with AF failure I got a PM from Leica asking about the service....

 

john

It's good to be famous :-)))

 

 

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[tom0511]

So far I have not had an issue with any of my 5 lens. I would really like to hear from others that have had a lens a long time without issue. I would be curious to know the number of lens sold to the number that have had this issue.

 

From S2 to S006 to S007, 8 S-lenses, no failures in regards of the lenses.

I had a problem with mirror adjustment with the S which was repaired, and a problem with SD cards slot of my S007 which was repaired quickly. I have to add that I dont use the system as much and heavy as a pro would probably do.

Even though I have not had any problem I think Leica should offer a free check of lenses and a replacement of the plastic gear. 

[Guest chipcarterdc]

To reiterate what I've said here previously: I have the 007, 006, 4 S lenses, and the Contax adapter and have not had a single problem with any of them. But - and I cannot emphasize this enough - Leica really needs to get in front of this and announce a voluntary recall and a proactive long-term fix with a new AF mechanism less prone to these problems. I assume the business people at Leica have run the numbers and concluded that the cost of lost business due to concerns about reliability + the cost of long-term spillover reputational harm + the cost of individual repairs as needed is still less than the cost of a general recall/redesign/replacement program. I'm not a business person nor do I have access to the information necessary to second-guess their judgment in this regard. I do know - being an attorney - that it would only take one class action lawsuit by a sufficiently enterprising lawyer to radically change that calculus, and I wonder whether Leica has fully considered that...

[Bill W]

If this has already been asked and addressed, forgive me but what exactly breaks when the auto focus quits working? Is it the same thing in each case? Are newer production lens less prone to this issue? I guess no one knows if Leica has or has not addressed this or if they just fix them as they break knowing it can likely break again. I have no intention of ditching my S system, I waited a long time before I bought in.

[Jeff S]

If this has already been asked and addressed, forgive me but what exactly breaks when the auto focus quits working? Is it the same thing in each case? Are newer production lens less prone to this issue? I guess no one knows if Leica has or has not addressed this or if they just fix them as they break knowing it can likely break again. I have no intention of ditching my S system, I waited a long time before I bought in.

 

Apparently this part...  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248514-leica-s-lens-af-issue/?p=2902590

 

Nobody knows the answer to the rest since Leica hasn't officially said.

 

Jeff

[Bill W]

Apparently this part...  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248514-leica-s-lens-af-issue/?p=2902590

 

Nobody knows the answer to the rest since Leica hasn't officially said.

 

Jeff

Thanks,

One wonders how a nylon gear would fail in this type application. Four of my lens are CPO which came from Leica NJ. I wonder if they were brand new and returned for this issue. If so hopefully they have a better AF motor in them. They all looked like they had never been mounted on a camera. Time will tell.

[Guest VVJ]

Ultimately it is of course Leica's sole responsibility to create confidence in the system, but I do not think the repeated postings here do much good. Complaints should primarily be directed to your dealer and to Leica directly, but again, I understand the frustration, especially when repair cycles are too long.

 

 

Any S-shooter who visits Photokina should take this up with Leica.

 

And although I understand what you are saying about the repeated postings I disagree.  The fact that Leica is still selling new lenses that have the issue is unacceptable.  Or Leica does not have a permanent solution which would even be worse.

 

About the repair cycles, btw, the fact they appear to be much longer for non-European customers is also unacceptable...

[jaapv]

The strange thing is that Leica seem to be able to provide reliable and fast AF on the T, Q and SL, so why not on their top model?

[LocalHero1953]

The strange thing is that Leica seem to be able to provide reliable and fast AF on the T, Q and SL, so why not on their top model?

If (as seems clear from responses elsewhere) Leica uses DC motors and gears to drive AF in some or all of the S lenses, then this is dated technology compared to linear induction drives which are now de rigueur for speed and low noise, and which are probably used in the more recent lenses.

Not being a lens designer myself, I guess there may be reasons associated with the size of MF lenses why they still use DC motors.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/04/a-look-at-electromagnetic-focusing/

[relms]

While I sympathize and understand the frustration of the posters here who have had problems, especially with the lenses, I suspect that the impression from this thread (and forum) may not be representative. Some people also post repeatedly in similar threads.

 

I have had all the S cameras over a period of 5 years, from S2 via S006 to S007 without any problems. I have travelled with the system in cities in Europe, savannas in Africa, New York and California, humid&hot Havana and ice cold Northern Norway. I have 5 S lenses, and yes, 2 of them have had problems (not while traveling, 1 AF, 1 aperture not closing), both repaired by Leica at no cost. I also have had problems with M models and lenses

 

There is no reason to deny that the S lenses have an AF problem, probably due to a construction error. This will be repaired by Leica at no cost. In my opinion Leica should have improved the construction and made a (voluntary) recall like they did with the first Monochrom. I can understand that the relaibility is an issue for professional shooters, though.

 

Still, it is a fantastic system, and I have no desire for anything else. If you have 2-3 lenses, maybe one of them a 3rd party, you should be safe.

 

I hope this noise does not harm the S system, it would be catastrophic if we get a "R type" closedown. Ultimately it is of course Leica's sole responsibility to create confidence in the system, but I do not think the repeated postings here do much good. Complaints should primarily be directed to your dealer and to Leica directly, but again, I understand the frustration, especially when repair cycles are too long.

 

Again, it is a fantastic system, and I believe for most of us who use and love it.

 

I agree that complaints should first be directed to your dealer and to Leica directly, but after doing that for seven months with no response from Leica and no word from the dealer, other than to say that he understood my frustration, I chose to go public with my complaints in the hopes that someone from Leica is monitoring this forum and will get the message, and the message is that a product that costs as much as the S system should work consistently, and when it doesn't, you fix it - quickly, not in seven months or more.  I agree that the S system is a fantastic system until something fails and the frustration begins.  Seven months of frustration is too much to expect from an S system investor.

 

Leica, if you care about your current and potential future customer base, address this problem and do it soon.

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[LeicaR10]

Georges,  Your post at #74 is a valid concern about buying a S system camera.  I have owned the S2, S006 and now the S007 with 5 S lenses.  I have bought in and out of the S system 3 times.  I can say from my experience with the S cameras and lenses all have been an improvement over the previous model to include reliability.  Yes, there are S lenses AF motors that have a defective gear.  I have personally experienced 3 broken S lenses, yet each lens was repaired at no cost to me, on an average of 2-6 weeks.  Unfortunately, stuff happens. Cars break, electronics break...even marriages break, yet I can say at least Leica has made a commitment to fix any S lens AF motor free of charge regardless of age and owner.  

 

Also, I do know from my past correspondence with Stefan Daniel, Product Manager at Leica, there is a major effort to revamp and vastly improve their customer service and repair.  I know this doesn't fix past or even present S lens AF motors, but at least Leica realizes it has a major issue and is going to fix and improve it.  This year at Photokina 2016, Leica is branding this event as the "Year of the Professional", I expect to hear many good things come out of this venue.  I also expect Leica users who go to the event and bend the Leica Reps ears on the issue of repair times of the S system and M system.  Many Leica owners may forget that Leica has come back from a near death experience of 2006-8 to be profitable and field new systems.  The company has issues like other companies and products, but based on my 3 decades of Leica use, I can say the company, their products and yes, customer service has come a long way and still has a way to go. Bottom line:  I would not fret about your pending S006 purchase.  You are getting an excellent camera that can help you create amazing images.  Hopefully you will spend countless hours enjoying those moments in time that you creatively make your visionary impressions and not worry about the camera failing.   r/ Mark

[Georges]

Mark (R10),

 

Let me start by saying, I like your name. I wish the R10 would have been launched. With 8 top lenses invested in the R system, it was a major blow in miscommunication by Leica I will not easily forget.

 

So, this means I come already a little bruised into the next game.

 

I sold my H4D40 today for a very nice price and I will probably jump into the 006 (probably the last CCD I will ever be able to buy). I tried the S with my HC lenses and they work perfectly. Some of them like the HC 50mm II are IMHO even better than the Leica equivalent.

 

So, my original plan was to buy a S 35mm, a S 70mm and the fabulous S 120mm. With my HCD 28mm, HC 50mm II, HC 100mm and the great HC 210mm, what else can you dream for?

 

But now, I am not sure anymore. Maybe I stick with the Hasselblad lenses. Let's see what they tell me at the Photokina.

 

I consider these days photo equipment should work as my (German) car : it should start every day and get me always and anytime where I need, without issues.  If Leica can have flawless SL, T. .. lenses, they should fix this AF issue quickly.