atufte Posted June 24, 2016 Share #1 Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi My Leica M Type 262 seem to underexpose in A mode (but seem fine with manual metering) and before anyone ask, I have of course checked that the exposure compensation is turned off. Is this a usual problem with the type 262? Can seem to remember my M8/M9/MM/M240 doing this? (it's seem "over-sensitive" to it's spot metering... and yes i know spot metering on Leica's after shooting with them for 20 years... I love the camera, and i normally shoot in manual mode, but it would be great if I could feel a bit more safe using A when I need it... So is my camera A metering "under calibrated" or is this normal = Learn to live with this? Thanks in advance All the Best Alex Edited June 24, 2016 by atufte Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 Hi atufte, Take a look here Leica Type 262 underexpose?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Steve Ricoh Posted June 24, 2016 Share #2 Posted June 24, 2016 Noticed this on my M240, have to dial in exposure comp between +0.3 and +0.7 This is likely to set the cat amongst the pigeons, but isn't the M262 exactly the same as the M240, with some of the bells and whistles removed? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 25, 2016 Share #3 Posted June 25, 2016 Umm... The camera (in classic mode) does not spot-meter, but is just pronounced centre-weighed like any M since the M6. Do you notice this effect with wide-angle lenses? That is fairly normal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted June 25, 2016 Share #4 Posted June 25, 2016 Yes, I was aware of the OP's mistake but answered in relation to under exposure. And yes I've noticed this with a 35mm lens. In essence, it's the price one pay's for using A mode as a point and shoot camera. The centre weighted light meter is optimising for a middle grey scene. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted June 25, 2016 Share #5 Posted June 25, 2016 So its usually a bright sky that skews the metering. Pan the camera around the scene and lock in the optimal exposure, recompose and shoot. Then you are using it as a semi-automatic but much faster than full manual. Otherwise just dip the camera so there's less sky/bright light source, lock in the exposure, Takes only a moment to do this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted June 25, 2016 Share #6 Posted June 25, 2016 So its usually a bright sky that skews the metering. Pan the camera around the scene and lock in the optimal exposure, recompose and shoot. Then you are using it as a semi-automatic but much faster than full manual. Otherwise just dip the camera so there's less sky/bright light source, lock in the exposure, Takes only a moment to do this. The 'dip' technique is something I use quite often... ...or meter once and go 'manual' in difficult light. Once set on manual and the scene doesn't change that much, there is enough headroom to finely adjust final exposure in Lightroom if necessary. I was photographing a family birthday (my sister in law) on a boat on the Thames recently... lots of light through the large windows and all the subjects inside, so difficult, contrasty, light. Worked perfectly. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregm61 Posted June 25, 2016 Share #7 Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Yep, the metering is as accurate as they way it's used. On Sunny days I don't even bother with reading the meter. Manual exposure, ISO 200 and 1/250 second at f11 or any reciprocal setting (1/500 @ f8, 1/2000 sec at f4, etc) is all you need, really speeds up the process and is pretty darn accurate, opening up one stop with either the aperture or shutter speed if you are shooting through a lot of shade, or closing down maybe a half stop or so if it's really bright with lots of white. Basically, what they used to (and I'm assuming, still do) print on the inside boxes of 35mm, 200 speed film and provides a great starting point for me in Adobe camera raw. I've been doing this now for a few weeks and only start referring to the meter in overcast conditions, early evening or indoors. Edited June 25, 2016 by Gregm61 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 25, 2016 Share #8 Posted June 25, 2016 Wise... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblutter Posted June 27, 2016 Share #9 Posted June 27, 2016 I doubt its the camera doing the under exposing. Metering is an art in itself. I'd get a beginner digital hand held meter, a good book on the subject and practice. Digital is the opposite of film. We now shoot to secure the highs rather than the lows in days of yore. Stick with it! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
koss Posted June 27, 2016 Share #10 Posted June 27, 2016 I noticed this as well with my 262 and the summarit 35, especially when bright skies are involved. I mostly shoot manual now, after some time to get used to the camera system and as Gregm61 and sblutter said, follow the wisdom and you'll do fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblutter Posted June 27, 2016 Share #11 Posted June 27, 2016 These cameras, since M9 are very fast to get an accurate reading and well exposed shot: Set camera metering to spot - and fully manual Pick an appropriate ISO for conditions (bright 200, cloudy 500, night 800 and up) and the f:stop you want to use on the lens. Here's my technique: With a naked squinted eye, glance around your shot for a patch of surface that roughly corresponds to a 6, where 0 is the darkest and 10 in the brightest you're looking at. Bring up the camera, aim the focusing patch on that 6 and 'capture' the shutter speed setting by pressing the shutter release button down just 1/2 way. In the viewfinder you'll see an apostrophe (') appear before the setting. Keeping that setting gently captured, frame focus and shoot. If you loose the setting by releasing your finder just do it again. With a bit of practice it will become 2nd nature. If the setting is too slow and you're getting camera movement - open the lens a stop, increase ISO - or both. Carry on from there - being mindful to not blow out highlights Just play with the camera doing the above around the house in various lighting conditions, night & day regularly until its 2nd nature Do not baby the camera - its a rugged piece of professional equipment designed for working journalists in the field under harsh conditions. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregm61 Posted June 27, 2016 Share #12 Posted June 27, 2016 M262 = no spot metering option. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pobble Posted June 28, 2016 Share #13 Posted June 28, 2016 In contrast to film whee it is essentially impossible to go out of the linear exposure/density range when overexposing (contrary to the "Zone system theory) clipping is a problem in all digital systems, whether in audio recording or recording images. I always under-expose by 1/3 stop whether its on a Lieca or Sony or N/ikon. Professional grade digital cameras all have a dynamic range that allows you to pull up detail using Lightroom or equivalent software. So don't be fazed about your M 262 underexposing. Moreover, nothing has changed in the last thirty years or so. Camera meters are idiots that have no idea of the inherent luminosity of objects in the scene. If you have a brilliant sky and wish to record detail in a dark foreground, you must selectively meter on what;s critical and "hold" the exposure.. The M262 in my experience has slightly better image quality than the M 240. Pobble Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 30, 2016 Share #14 Posted June 30, 2016 However, on film it is quite easy to block the shadows, which is not the case in digital systems. Slide film has a reversed character to negative film of course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblutter Posted June 30, 2016 Share #15 Posted June 30, 2016 M262 = no spot metering option. Just read that section in the manual - indeed - very surprising Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted June 30, 2016 Share #16 Posted June 30, 2016 I bought an M262 a few days ago. The metering is exactly similar to the M240, under or overexposing under similar conditions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim0266 Posted June 30, 2016 Share #17 Posted June 30, 2016 My understanding is the live view functionality in the 240 is what made spot and the advanced metering modes possible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregm61 Posted June 30, 2016 Share #18 Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) That's my understanding too. A digital M7 is basically what the M262 is, and I'm liking that. Edited June 30, 2016 by Gregm61 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enboe Posted July 1, 2016 Share #19 Posted July 1, 2016 Joining the conspiracy theorists, I think that Leica may have tweaked their algorithms for the 262 and M-D to be biased 1/3 to 1/2 stop under. The logic is that you can always pull the exposure up that small amount in Lightroom, but a blown highlight is forever lost. Of course this is of no comfort to the JPG shooters who need spot-on exposure every time. I also concur with the statements expressed above regarding wide lenses and broad sky in pictures, and use the "dip" or "nodding" technique if I note an unusually high shutter speed in "A" mode. Simply point the camera more towards the ground to drop the shutter speed, lock the exposure, and recompose. It all takes less than a second. Happy shooting. Eric Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted July 2, 2016 Share #20 Posted July 2, 2016 I have to revise my statement after having used the 262 more extensively in the past week. Indeed it does underexpose by 2/3 stop compared to the 240. However since the 240 overexposes by the same amount in classic mode, I think Leica just corrected this minor flaw and the 262 metering seems to be spot on with average subjects that don't induce metering errors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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