Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[scott kirkpatrick]

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For DJII, doesn't it make sense to hook up with the medium format player that is first to market with a lightweight high megapixel solution?  Consumer-grade drones don't carry any more freight weight than they have to, hence the popularity of hooking up GoPro equipment rather than shlepping Canon DSLRs with 24mm lenses.  (I've flown a battered old drone to which we connected Olympus M43 gear, selecting a PL5 with its 12mm lens as the lightest available that would shoot 99 time lapsed shots in the course of an orbit.)  The drone footage that catches attention is detail-rich shots looking down on something not often seen from above, so the X1D might be a great match.  And I notice that they are talking about video capability.

 

It makes good sense to me.

 

scott

[mmx_2]

Similar thoughts came out when Volvo was bought be Geely, but to be honest, Volvo is more Swedish today than it was when Ford was owning it so it might not necessarily be a problem. In the case of Volvo (I have a lot of friends with insight working there), more or less all of the development has moved back to the Gothenburg area and they have invested a lot of money into the factories in Sweden. You read a lot about that they are building new factories in China, which is true, but those are all aiming for the Chinese market (which is of course a huge market). What you might not read so much about is how much they have actually invested in Sweden, they recently invested a bit over 100million $ to build a second line of steel pressing machines (in the factory in Olofström), they have also invested several hundred millions in the Torslanda factories. So, it’s not necessarily a bad thing that Hassy is bought by a Chinese company. I think what matters is that you have an owner willing the invest long term and run the company long term rather than making a huge profit in short time (which is typically the case with investment companies).

Regarding the X1D, I can tell you (from a very reliable source with insight in the company) that only in Sweden more than 100 cameras are on pre-order (and we are a puny little country of 10million people…) and all in all they have more than 4000 on order (and their goal was to sell 1000 cameras the first year).

 

Since Sweden is a very open country, the financial books of Hasselblad is available to everyone. You can search any Swedish company and get their main figures on this site:

 

www.allabolag.se

 

Of course, the site is in Swedish and all the figures are Swedish crowns (divided by 10 and you get a rough euro number, divided by 9 and you get a rough dollar figure). The last 4 years Hasselblad has been totally bleeding, blue is turnover and red/green is loss/win after tax:

 

Edited January 5, 2017 by mmx_2

[mmx_2]

For DJII, doesn't it make sense to hook up with the medium format player that is first to market with a lightweight high megapixel solution?  Consumer-grade drones don't carry any more freight weight than they have to, hence the popularity of hooking up GoPro equipment rather than shlepping Canon DSLRs with 24mm lenses.  (I've flown a battered old drone to which we connected Olympus M43 gear, selecting a PL5 with its 12mm lens as the lightest available that would shoot 99 time lapsed shots in the course of an orbit.)  The drone footage that catches attention is detail-rich shots looking down on something not often seen from above, so the X1D might be a great match.  And I notice that they are talking about video capability.

 

It makes good sense to me.

 

scott

Ironically the Swedish authorities recently banned all usage of drones with cameras (juridically they were classified as surveillance cameras for which you need a permit only given out in very rare cases). So, unless you are the Swedish military or possible (they still need to apply for a permit) police or fire fighter, you can forget all usage of drones with cameras (drones without cameras are still allowed).

[meerec]

 

And maybe in the future you get a free drone with a X1D, so you really do not need GPS in the body

 

 

 

 

you're mistaken ... soon you will get a flying X1D ... ok maybe X1D-F

LOL

[scott kirkpatrick]

Ironically the Swedish authorities recently banned all usage of drones with cameras (juridically they were classified as surveillance cameras for which you need a permit only given out in very rare cases). So, unless you are the Swedish military or possible (they still need to apply for a permit) police or fire fighter, you can forget all usage of drones with cameras (drones without cameras are still allowed).

Your ability to do useful things with a drone, like deliver packages or make nice pictures, varies wildly around the world.  Parts of Europe are privacy-hysterical.  Apparently Sweden falls into that camp, and there are laws regarding data privacy that go to extreme lengths in Germany as well.  But not in the US, where most of the discussion of net neutrality and data privacy states some principles and then takes a wait-and-see attitude.  However, the FAA is concerned about drones colliding with things like people and real airplanes.  As a result, US regulations require registering all drones, and restrict flights to within line of sight and under 500' AGL, not above people, and may require a pilot's license of some new sort.  As a result, research in drone applications happens in countries like the UK and Canada that are more forgiving.  But it is certainly going on.

 

scott 

[Peter H]

Its odd that a negative slant should be put on this story.

 

A company that has been struggling for many years, largely as a result of trying to adapt to the technological changes in the industry, finally find the product that the market wants, that offers a viable future and which persuades investors to buy in.

 

There are always questions about continuity when things change and ultra-conservative customers may avoid a company that is changing like this.

 

For my part, I was more concerned about Hasselblad's future before new wealthy owners came along. This is the sort of news I was hoping for.

[Guest]

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My initial reaction was to cancel my order. BUT that is emotion taking me over. What others and you say also makes sense. 

[Peter H]

My initial reaction was to cancel my order. BUT that is emotion taking me over. What others and you say also makes sense.

Following my previous comment, the only thing I would suggest is waiting to hear an official announcement. We and others are basing our reactions on an article which, while written in good faith and no doubt we'll-informed, is still only one man's interpretation of events.

 

I certainly wouldn't cancel an order but I'd like to have the facts before parting with the cash.

 

I'm optimistic. Hasselblad needed a wealthy owner, they did not need state backing. This is just the type of development that we should have been hoping for. But as always, we should be guided by facts and I look forward to either an official announcement or an authorised report.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Peter H

[Guest]

Hi Peter, indeed I also await official announcements and am trying to remain optimistic. After all I think the X1D is the camera I would be more than happy with but want facts before doing the deal. 

[Bill W]

Neil D,

We never heard if you kept the X1D you were borrowing. 

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Neil D,

We never heard if you kept the X1D you were borrowing.

No it was sh!te........ if it ain't got a red dot on it it ain't going in my bag......... period

Leica rocks :) :)

[EoinC]

In accordance with some of the earlier posters, I don't know why one should have less faith in funding from a very successful, technology innovator (who managed to broaden and dominate a niche global market in the space of a few short years), than in a group of VC's, whose core function is to 'pick and flick'. Subject to further details being available, I would take this move as good news.

[steppenw0lf]

Why worry about the owners. Better worry about the details like delivery dates, usability, robustness, longevity ...

Are you investment bankers or (hobby) photographers ?

I would rather worry about the possibility to add the older lenses and unite the two separate worlds inside Hasselblad (500 system with databack and the more modern H and X system). If this unification will not come, then all lenses have to be bought again.

This is the point where the SL is far more advanced - whoever is the owner.

[cwolffensperger]

Hmm, and de fuji gfx is going to be around $6500... sounds interesting too..

 

 

Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

[jaapv]

No it was sh!te........

Could you specify your findings?

[lencap]

I wouldn't be concerned about the Venture Capital firm's sale to DJII - it's "normal" business.  Venitzz bought Hasselblad June 30, 2011.  Many Venture Capital firms try to "liquify" their investment within a five year timeframe - the sale to DJII fits that timeframe very well.

 

Here's a write-up of Venitzz from Bloomberg - a very well respected Financial Services firm:

 

​Ventizz Capital Fund IV, L.P. specializes in later stage, middle market, buyouts, industry consolidation, recapitalization, add-on acquisitions, buy and build strategy, and growth capital investments of small and medium-sized companies. The fund prefers to invest in commercial construction and engineering; engineering services; communications equipment; software; telecommunication services; and alternative energy resources. It seeks to invest in medium-sized companies based in Austria, Switzerland, Germany, and other German speaking countries. The fund typically invests between €10 million ($12.47 million) and €90 million ($112.24 million) in companies having revenues between €20 million ($24.94 million) and €400 million ($498.82 million). The fund can co-invest with partners having an enterprise values between €10 million ($12.47 million) and €250 million ($311.76 million) and EBITDA between €2 million ($2.49 million) and €50 million ($62.35 million). It prefers to take controlling stake in its portfolio companies.

 

Given the above description, and the typical desire for venture capital firms to liquify funds by a "date certain" deadline, the sale makes perfect sense.  The issue of DJI as owner is likely a stronger long term partner.  DJI is owned by Frank Wang, estimated to have a net worth approaching $4B, making him one of the 30 wealthiest men in China.  DJI appears to be valued near $8B according to Forbes, and has annual sales approaching $1B. 

The imaging world itself is in flux, I'd expect many firms will be creative in how to approach the future.  For most of us on this forum smart phone cameras are not our primary photographic tools, but for much of the world they have replaced stand alone cameras.  Perhaps DJI sees this as an opportunity to leverage their platform with a superior brand, perhaps expanding into movie production.  ARRI cameras are widely used in that industry, and perhaps DJI sees an opportunity to become a major player.  If you shoot video, like many on this site, a drone is a potentially wonderful platform.  Unfortunately a GoPro isn't a wonderful capture medium.  Imagine a medium format Hasselblad on a movie production set, with a separate "pilot" to maneuver the DJI drone, and a separate controller for the "cameraman" to capture the images.  DJI already makes several higher end sophisticated platforms - maybe Hasselblad's management sees more opportunity with DJI than Ventizz could provide.

 

Time will tell how the match goes, but the initial comparison of DJI to Ventizz shouldn't be a major reason by itself for concern about Hasselblad's long term viability, and from some perspectives it may be a significant positive.  

Edited January 6, 2017 by lencap

[Jeff S]

The Hasselblad article on LuLa has already been superseded, 24 hours later, by an unremarkable Fuji announcement.  Headline articles on LuLa typically last 3 or more days.  I think Kevin Raber couldn't wait to change the subject, having received lots of negative commentary on the LuLa forum, similar to feedback here.

 

Jeff

[Guest]

The Hasselblad article on LuLa has already been superseded, 24 hours later, by an unremarkable Fuji announcement.  Headline articles on LuLa typically last 3 or more days.  I think Kevin Raber couldn't wait to change the subject, having received lots of negative commentary on the LuLa forum, similar to feedback here.

 

Jeff

 

He's still working on a review of the X1D, which I hope will come out soon.

[Peter H]

Thanks for the information above Lencap and Jeff

 

It seems to me that whilst one type of uncertainty might have been exchanged for another, (that's life) there is nothing at all negative in anything about this story, and, setting aside speculation and trying to think sensibly about the few facts we believe we can rely on with a reasonable degree of confidence, I take great encouragement from it.

 

So, back to the camera itself for me.

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[Guest]

I see Light & Byte in Zürich have stock according to their website of X1D, I wonder how long that will be for!