The Leica M-D thread - merged.

[AndrewDD]

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Also.... I don't understand, many wanting to get rid if the LCD...Why?

A preview is one of the best benefits of the digital age...turn it off it you don't want it.

What do you gain by not having it ability to preview?.....To me its nice to have a little insurance.

 

I find it incomprehensible too. If you don't want to look at the screen, switch it off. For me it is vital when setting up a shoot to check on what I am getting, it would be ridiculous to shoot several hundred pictures to find when I got home that the exposure or colour balance was way off. The fact that the M60 has proved to be an unsellable turkey should be sufficient warning to Leica. I'm sure that the only people interested in a camera like this are on this forum!

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[Hey You]

Hence the saying, "One man's meat is another man's poison."

[michaelwj]

Hence the saying, "One man's meat is another man's poison."

 

I though it was "One man's fish is another man's poisson" 

 

M

[wattsy]

One thing's pretty much for certain: despite the rumour of "M-A size and appearance" it will have the same form factor as the M240/262 platform.

[ECohen]

Nope "Hey You " is correct

one man's meat is another man's poison

phrase of meat

1. 1. 

   proverb

   things liked or enjoyed by one person may be distasteful to another.

    

    

 

But I just don't see it .....One should shoot film if you don't want to embrace the digital age. Not having an LCD on the camera does not give a digital Leica an analog feel.

Now your done with the shoot  you edit and polish on a computer? Don't forget to put a red light light bulb in your desk lamp for the analog feel...as you work on the computer.

 

I shot film for 30 years there was nothing like the insurance of a Polaroid.

 

If you really want to give digital an analog feel..... Do away with the delete button.....Have 3 kinds SD cards that only hold 12, 24 or 36 shots and we shouldn't be able to reuse them.

Lets make a commitment to each photograph we choose to make.......   Thats the real analog benefit. Perhaps even Black and White only and color only SD cards  

 

I might be on to something?

Edited April 21, 2016 by ECohen

[Mike Rawcs]

The whole point about a digital M without an LCD is that it allows the camera to be the same dimensions as a film M camera. It's not so much about getting rid of the LCD, as about reducing size. If the rumours are true, we will have a choice. Can't live without an LCD? Buy M240 / M262. Can't live with the bloated body of current digital M cameras? Buy the M - D and forsake the advantages of an LCD. 

 

Mike.

[Hey You]

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I'm on the same page as Mike (comment #126).

However, it's not just the LCD which goes.

The six  buttons beside it on the rear of the camera are also eliminated, to be replaced by a single ISO dial, as on the M60.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Hey You

[ECohen]

I do get it....and I too would like the camera slimmer and lighter......but not at the expense of the LCD.

 

The LCD is a very important feature on todays cameras..... But since we are even having this discussion ...Leica sees the market for it.

I cant imaging this being a preferred style/model. And would be curious how many of this forums users would buy it?

I would think there would be too few users to make it profitable.......that it the beauty of Leica ..it can make small runs still profitable.

 

 

No preview.... lighter/thinner camera ...same price?

Anyone on this forum know how to do a survey?

Edited April 21, 2016 by ECohen

[wattsy]

It won't be thinner (at least not significantly). It will the same chunky M240 type shell but without an LCD.

 

 

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[jaapv]

They might shave off one or two mm depth for the lacking LCD, but you are right, they will need space for the motherboard behind the sensor. The only way it could be thinned down would be by letting the mount protrude more.

[jim0266]

For me the Achilles' heel of the M60, and presumably, a consumer version of that camera, is the lack of Auto ISO. In certain circumstances being able to precisely control the aperture and shutter speed and allow the camera to pick the ISO, while being able to use EC, is a brilliant convention. 

 

BUT, I can see how this would be an appealing camera to some M fans. For those who don't like the M240's live view and video there is the 262. Now we may have a camera for those who want to feel like they are shooting a film M. If it makes Leica money so they can stay in business and keep producing M bodies, I'm fine with that.

[ECohen]

It won't be thinner (at least not significantly). It will the same chunky M240 type shell but without an LCD.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

I dont think I would mind the mount sticking out...a little?

When I first got my M I used a 1/2 case...But I didn't like the feel in my hands.

Once i got rid of the case ....the M naked had a  feel I can live with.

 

I do love the size and weight of my X2....but thats a different thread

[IkarusJohn]

For me the Achilles' heel of the M60, and presumably, a consumer version of that camera, is the lack of Auto ISO. In certain circumstances being able to precisely control the aperture and shutter speed and allow the camera to pick the ISO, while being able to use EC, is a brilliant convention. 

 

BUT, I can see how this would be an appealing camera to some M fans. For those who don't like the M240's live view and video there is the 262. Now we may have a camera for those who want to feel like they are shooting a film M. If it makes Leica money so they can stay in business and keep producing M bodies, I'm fine with that.

 

I use AutoISO on my Monochrom and on the SL largely because those cameras are reasonably forgiving of a wide ISO range. 

 

But to be honest, it doesn't really much matter. In manual (my preferred setting), I set the ISO to what I think will be a usable range for that setting. I then set aperture for depth of field and shutter for motion blur. If the ISO won't support that selection, the meter tells you. It isn't hard. 

 

As to chimping, for me, it's a negative to my photography. I certainly don't need to chimp to get the exposure right. Sometimes I do on the SL, but it doesn't help me. Being careful to understand what my meter is reading is more beneficial. It is a discipline which I believe it has helped my photography. 

 

I don't think there are left over M60 cameras because of the lack of LCD or strap lugs. I think it was the price. 

Edited April 21, 2016 by IkarusJohn

[Tailwagger]

Its one thing to delete the LCD altogether, but AFAICT the camera does have an LCD, it is just an optional extra from Apple.  That doesn't strike me as some grand innovation that results in a simpler more elegant experience, certainly not for those of us who alter settings in the middle of a shoot.  Forget about chimping, 85.7% of my modest collection of glass is uncoded. Its awkward enough trying to shoot a card and move a cursor around to set white balance as it is... so now you have to juggle an iPhone as well?  What happens if you forget to load a card? It blinks at you, fails to turn on or perhaps it calls your phone and leaves you a message?  

 

Nope. I buy none of it and certainly not at a premium to the 262.  If there was decent menu display in the VF, or heaven forbid an EVF, it would be awkward, but perhaps tolerable. But relying on a external device, that BTW changes specs and goes unsupported after just a few years, seems rather imprudent when one is speaking of a camera designed to last for ages. So count me in the camp that utterly fails to see the appeal of this other than some wistful desire for one's camera to appear even more old school than it already does.  Screw that. The only image I'm interested in is the one the camera produces, not the one it projects. 

[IkarusJohn]

All very true - that is one of the reasons Leica introduced coding - so you don't have to fumble through menus mid shoot (if you remember) to change the lens correction.

 

Look, I'm not saying an LCD-less digital is the future of Leica cameras.  I have an SL, and certainly wouldn't want one of those without an LCD.  But I do want an M without one, for all the reasons which were debated months ago.  Much as many here say "if you don't want the LCD, turn it off", the answer is simple - if you don't like the idea of no LCD, don't buy an M60 or an M-D (if it as it's reputed to be).  It isn't a replacement for anything ...

 

 

The only image I'm interested in is the one the camera produces, not the one it projects. 

 

I absolutely agree 100%, and the M60 does exactly that for me.

 

And, yes I do use film too.  For me, this is what the M is about - not what it became with the M(240), and will surely continue to be with its successor.  As we're retreading old ground, I love the rangefinder mechanism.  It's brilliant, particularly with the lenses I have between 28mm & 90mm.  Outside that range, not so much.  In the unlikely event that I want video or focus bracketing or I want to chimp, then I have an SL - that's brilliant at that stuff too.  The M, not so much.

 

Your route varies, I get it.  

Edited April 21, 2016 by IkarusJohn

[JonPB]

...relying on a external device, that BTW changes specs and goes unsupported after just a few years, seems rather imprudent when one is speaking of a camera designed to last for ages. 

 

 

I normally read forums to get a sense of different points of view, but they rarely change my mind.

 

I've been a fan of the 60 since it was announced, although it is well out of my budget. I want fewer moving parts, which are both points of failure and seepage for moisture and dust, and I don't believe chimping or histograms help me take better images. (They're great training tools, but not for use in the field, for how I shoot. I'm highly tolerant of tossing images that could have been good but weren't, learning from them, and hopefully doing a better job of seizing the next opportunity.) I think that using a smartphone to adjust settings would be a great idea.

 

But. Those phones will go away long before I'm ready to stop using my Leica. I do, in fact, want my Leica to be self-contained, which will at some point likely mean using a screen. I have more electronics that are perfectly fine mechanically but orphaned with software support and so unsafe/difficult to use than I know what to do with. Putting my Leica in that category would make me sad.

 

So I think this comment changed my mind. Bravo, Tailwagger, and everyone else who has made this point but was overlooked by my humbled self. Thank you.

 

Cheers,

Jon

[ECohen]

As one of  my very first jobs I assisted for master photographers, shooting 8X10 transparencies in 1970's.

They would load print paper into the holders and develop them in trays before shooting the film.....It was insurance.

 

As an assignment photographer. I used to pull Polaroids in all formats to be sure I got the exact shot that the client wanted.

Today I shoot more for myself....but I always have a plan. I still consider myself a" picture maker" rather than a "picture taker".

 

I try not to leave things to chance or luck. OK truth be told I do occasionally welcome the happy accident.

 

Could someone explain to me why "chimping" is considered a bad thing?

The word even sounds like a bad practice....a hindrance rather that an asset.

 

I honestly don't understand why checking your work is considered a bad practice?

I've got an open mind and can see there are enough of you on this threat ......Help me out.

Whats wrong with checking your work before moving on? For me it leads to better Ideas  and taking the situation to a higher place.

 

Now we have easy technology....Why not use it?.......It seems obvious that getting rid of the LCD is more than to make a lighter/thinner camera.

Please enlighten me as to your thought process and why chimping  bad ....and not cool?

 

Honestly .......thank you all for help and advice

Edited April 21, 2016 by ECohen

[pop]

Could someone explain to me why "chimping" is considered a bad thing?

Not everyone makes the same kind of photograph. Not everyone works the same way. Therefore, different people prefer different gear.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jmahto]

I do get it....and I too would like the camera slimmer and lighter......but not at the expense of the LCD.

 

The LCD is a very important feature on todays cameras..... But since we are even having this discussion ...Leica sees the market for it.

I cant imaging this being a preferred style/model. And would be curious how many of this forums users would buy it?

I would think there would be too few users to make it profitable.......that it the beauty of Leica ..it can make small runs still profitable.

 

 

No preview.... lighter/thinner camera ...same price?

Anyone on this forum know how to do a survey?

Highlight mine...

 

I hardly use LCD on my Nex-6 since it is crappy in sunlight, however I do use the EVF to chimp (when I do) or to change settings since everything in LCD goes to EVF. For me as long as I have an EVF (accessory or not), I will not miss LCD.

 

(Edit: BTW, you asked why "chimping" is a bad thing. It is bad because it is generally a distraction. In fast moving scene chimping habit may cause lost moments. In slow and deliberate shooting not so much. Note that simply looking at LCD to playback images is not chimping. It is the habit of looking at every picture immediately after capture.)

Edited April 21, 2016 by jmahto

[jdlaing]

Not everyone makes the same kind of photograph. Not everyone works the same way. Therefore, different people prefer different gear.

 

I'm sorry. I didn't hear that. Could you say it just a little louder?