The Leica M-D thread - merged.

[Exodies]

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I don't think it's a scheme to push buyers to the complete M, I think it's to get those who value credible deniability to buy another body - did you take a movie with your camera? No, look, no M button. Did you check and improve your shots? No, look, no screen.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Exodies

[Exodies]

The whole program is:

 

1  if (user_money < greedy_amount) don't give him sh*t;

2 Got to 1

Except it will be written in the whitespace programming language

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[semi-ambivalent]

As befits this computer age, the models's numbering is non-linear so forget that. M3 before the M2, remember? OVF is expensive so if Leica can replace it with something better and cheaper they should. If Leica techs, a half century ago, could mesh two aerial images in a prisim I imagine they could mesh two EVF images as well, and throw in some framelines too. All inside a block of Lucite that would never go out of adjustment. This might be out of reach for them now but soon enough. The designers at Apple are unsurpassed at this kind if wizardry; they would make better partners than some watch company.

 

This type of O/E-VF would work for the film-based products as well so the costs could be reduced across the line. It would also help sell Leica as a truly innovative company which doesn't just look back at its heritage to sell very expensive things. Karbe's work might be in this vein too.

 

s-a

[derleicaman]

The naming convention changed when Alfred Schopf was the CEO. He is a Porsche guy, and the idea was to have the new model numbers of the M based on the naming conventions used at Porsche. In other words, 356, 911, 930, 928 was the way Porsche named their cars using the internal project number. So it makes sense to a certain degree.

 

This is how it was explained to me by Leica Wetzlar contacts when the M 240 came out. I was expecting M10 just like everyone else.

 

Fun story relating to the M8. Logically, M8 followed the M7 naming convention. Some smart guy in Germany copyrighted "M8" before it came out, and Leica had a potential expensive legal issue on their hands. I was contacted by Leica Solms and asked to provide an affidavit to the effect that emails between myself and my contact in Leica Germany had been exchanged with M8 being specifically mentioned. I think the case went away somehow, but thought it kind of funny that Leica had not thought to "lock up" the numbers M8, M9 etc. But back in those days the bank was knocking on their door and there was a good chance of Leica going out of business, so they had other things on their minds!

 

To call the M 262 and the M-D also M 262 makes no sense.

[marchyman]

 

 

To call the M 262 and the M-D also M 262 makes no sense.

 

 

But calling the M 240 and also the M-P 240 does?

[satijntje]

 

This is how it was explained to me by Leica Wetzlar contacts when the M 240 came out. I was expecting M10 just like everyone else.

 

 

 

The initial idea was needed to call the M240 "M10"!

The topplates were already manufactured with "M10" engraved.

Leica Management then decided to call the new camera simply M, and all M10 topplates were destroyed.

J

[jaapv]

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I think one should think this through. Leica was planning to release far more M cameras than they had in the past. How could they retain the sequential numbering without running into an M99 within a relatively limited number of years? By now they would be releasing the M16...

[FrozenInTime]

I think one should think this through. Leica was planning to release far more M cameras than they had in the past. How could they retain the sequential numbering without running into an M99 within a relatively limited number of years? By now they would be releasing the M16...

 

Not really ; to date, there are only really three digital M camera platforms - the M8,M9 and M.240 ; the rest are just build variations. 

We could have had the M10, M10-P, M10-E, M10-M , M10-D etc. 

[jaapv]

So you run out of space on the front of the camera with the font size they are using . Seriously, is that really better than the system they use now? A model letter to indicate the camera system, a type number to indicate the iteration and a letter to tell you the model? With -this is Leica, remember - the occasional anomaly like the M-Monochrom  (but at introduction they expected it to be an one-off odd man out )

[jcraf]

According to Osterloh, in his excellent new book 'Leica M 1954 to today', (which replaces the equally good '50 Years Leica M'), it is stated at p299 that ".....Leica AG wished to avoid designations with 2 digits in the camera name.  It was decided to eliminate numerals in general, in all camera names, and only designate the camera family."

 

I think we can credit this as a reliable source.

[ynp]

Did you check and improve your shots? No, look, no screen.

Maybe a Seconic or any smartphone light meter will be able to help check and improve the exposure, if the metering is confusing. The framing and composition in the viewfinder might be difficult for those people who've never used film Leicas.

[CheshireCat]

[,,,]

Did you take a movie with your camera? No, look, no M button.

Did you check and improve your shots? No, look, no screen.

 

Did you have any accident with your car ? No, look, no seatbelts.

[Joshua Lowe]

According to Osterloh, in his excellent new book 'Leica M 1954 to today', (which replaces the equally good '50 Years Leica M'), it is stated at p299 that ".....Leica AG wished to avoid designations with 2 digits in the camera name.  It was decided to eliminate numerals in general, in all camera names, and only designate the camera family."

 

I think we can credit this as a reliable source.

Yeah, I get the impression they look to companies like Porsche.  The 911 moniker is iconic and Leica wants the "M" to represent the entire lineage as part of the brand while distinguishing individual versions with the "typ" designations.  Who knows how those designations are determined, though.

 

It also helps diffuse the perception of obsolescence.  We're prone to thinking the "M9" is a better camera than the "M8" merely because it's one number higher.  

Edited March 14, 2016 by Joshua Lowe

[Peter H]

According to Osterloh, in his excellent new book 'Leica M 1954 to today', (which replaces the equally good '50 Years Leica M'), it is stated at p299 that ".....Leica AG wished to avoid designations with 2 digits in the camera name. It was decided to eliminate numerals in general, in all camera names, and only designate the camera family."

 

I think we can credit this as a reliable source.

It's really just an observation of what's happened rather than new information about why it's happened isn't it?

 

But aside from a minuscule bit of entirely avoidable customer confusion, it seems like a logical thing to do.

 

As others have said, the 911 is always a 911. A Mercedes SL is always an SL. Changing the name of the product with each iteration isn't as obviously natural or helpful an idea as we probably assume, simply because we got used to it.

[IkarusJohn]

Designating the entire range as "Leica M" with variants does actually make sense to me.

 

It's a Leica M, not an S, nor an SL, T or X.  Lots of variations and choices, but the fundamental form factor and optical rangefinder should (hopefully) remain unchanged.  Whether you have a type 240, 262, 246, M-D, M-A doesn't really matter, does it (other than to trainspotters) - it's an M.

[sarav]

...the fundamental form factor and optical rangefinder should (hopefully) remain unchanged.

 

 

it has to, otherwise it's another product; not an M. I hope Leica will takes out of M platform all the possible frankensteining plans that I now see "in flesh and blood" in the other Leica models.

...opinion of mine, obviously.

 

P.S. I'm very happy with Leica-M (film and digital), the only new product I ever wanted to see is a real R10 (digital) for my beloved R-lenses.

[CheshireCat]

the fundamental form factor and optical rangefinder should (hopefully) remain unchanged.  Whether you have a type 240, 262, 246, M-D, M-A doesn't really matter, does it (other than to trainspotters) - it's an M.

 

 

What about M-E (Messsucher-Elektronisch) ?

[jcraf]

It's really just an observation of what's happened rather than new information about why it's happened isn't it?

Well, I saw it as an explanation of why it's happened.  But as you say, it's flyshit, and totally unimportant to the experience of shooting with an M.

[kkonkkrete]

So when is this camera going to come out?

 

If it really is an M262 without the back screen, but with the same optical RF, then I'm going to get one --- assuming it is no more expensive than the standard M262.  It'll be my dream camera.  Of course, if it has an EVF, I'll pass, thanks.

 

Exciting!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jmahto]

So when is this camera going to come out?

 

If it really is an M262 without the back screen, but with the same optical RF, then I'm going to get one --- assuming it is no more expensive than the standard M262.  It'll be my dream camera.  Of course, if it has an EVF, I'll pass, thanks.

 

Exciting!

If it has EVF then I will expect it to be as good as SL's and then this will be a better camera than SL for using manual focus lenses (IMHO). Cheaper (hopefully), lighter and smaller than SL. One will go to M240 (and it's future variants) only for RF experience, which matters to many but not to all current M users.