Herr Barnack Posted December 31, 2015 Share #1  Posted December 31, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I recently acquired a 1959 vintage Elmar M lens s/n 1699*** (the version with the infinity lock button) and am trying to determine if it is safe to collapse the lens when it is attached to my M-P 240 body.  I did a forum search and found this thread about using the Elmar on the M9 body http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/223170-50mm-f28-elmar-on-an-m9/?hl=f2.8%20elmar but I am still wary as I do not know if the position of the sensor in the M-P body is the same as in the M9.  If the sensor in the M-P is positioned closer to the lens mount than the M9, collapsing the lens could result in contact between the sensor and the lens, causing sensor damage. Obviously this is something I want to avoid.  If anyone who uses the 50 Elmar on the M-P body can comment on this issue, I would be grateful for your help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Hi Herr Barnack, Take a look here 50mm f/.28 Elmar M on M-P 240 question. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Peter Kilmister Posted December 31, 2015 Share #2 Â Posted December 31, 2015 I'm sure that in the manual there is a list of lenses that are incompatible with the M-P 240. My wife is busy with a business phone call in the room where my manual is stored so I'll look later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kilmister Posted December 31, 2015 Share #3 Â Posted December 31, 2015 I remembered I have a pdf of the manual on my PC. Your lens isn't specifically mentioned but there is a warning about not retracting lenses (see page 147) otherwise damage might occur. You can download the pdf from Leica's website if you can't find your manual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 31, 2015 Share #4  Posted December 31, 2015 I recently acquired a 1959 vintage Elmar M lens s/n 1699*** (the version with the infinity lock button) and am trying to determine if it is safe to collapse the lens when it is attached to my M-P 240 body.  I did a forum search and found this thread about using the Elmar on the M9 body http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/223170-50mm-f28-elmar-on-an-m9/?hl=f2.8%20elmar but I am still wary as I do not know if the position of the sensor in the M-P body is the same as in the M9.  If the sensor in the M-P is positioned closer to the lens mount than the M9, collapsing the lens could result in contact between the sensor and the lens, causing sensor damage. Obviously this is something I want to avoid.  If anyone who uses the 50 Elmar on the M-P body can comment on this issue, I would be grateful for your help. The position of the sensor is the same. Flange to sensor distance is set.  The size of the throat may be the difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted December 31, 2015 Share #5 Â Posted December 31, 2015 Sorry I can't help, but have spent a delightful few minutes imagining the front element of an f/0.28 Elmar... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share #6  Posted December 31, 2015 I remembered I have a pdf of the manual on my PC. Your lens isn't specifically mentioned but there is a warning about not retracting lenses (see page 147) otherwise damage might occur. You can download the pdf from Leica's website if you can't find your manual. You are correct, pkilmister - why it did not occur to me to consult the manual is beyond me; holiday season brain fart, I guess. I am relieved that I have been erring on the side of caution up to this point.  So there is our official answer, ladies and gents: Do not retract your retractable lenses when they are mounted on your M240, M-P 240, M Monochrom and/or Typ 262 bodies! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted January 1, 2016 Share #7 Â Posted January 1, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Isn't there a similar issue with collapsible lenses and the M9/MM v.1? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 2, 2016 Share #8  Posted January 2, 2016 [...] So there is our official answer, ladies and gents: Do not retract your retractable lenses when they are mounted on your M240, M-P 240, M Monochrom and/or Typ 262 bodies!  Or follow Leica's advice from the seventies about the Leica CL: « Collapsible lenses need safety strips to limit the retraction of the lens barrel. These can be fitted by the user, employing embossing tapes available everywhere or Dymo and similar embossing machines. Apply the tape around the lens barrel, leaving a gap of about 1mm. To cut the right length first do a paper template. »  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/255021-50mm-f28-elmar-m-on-m-p-240-question/?do=findComment&comment=2960082'>More sharing options...
henning Posted January 2, 2016 Share #9  Posted January 2, 2016 Or follow Leica's advice from the seventies about the Leica CL: « Collapsible lenses need safety strips to limit the retraction of the lens barrel. These can be fitted by the user, employing embossing tapes available everywhere or Dymo and similar embossing machines. Apply the tape around the lens barrel, leaving a gap of about 1mm. To cut the right length first do a paper template. »  Untitled-1.jpg   This might be the official position, but it's definitely overkill. The only collapsible lens or lens which goes far into the camera body which I have not tried is the old 60's collapsible 90 Elmar. All others, including the above 50 Elmar, new Elmar, Super Angulons and even the Hologon are fine, and don't touch the shutter. It's easy to measure: take a strip of paper, insert it into the camera body and mark the paper where it touches the flange how far it can be inserted before it touches the shutter. Then take it and with it measure the distance from the lens flange to the back of the collapsed or questionable lens. That should put your mind at ease.  It is always a good idea though to extend the lens before mounting it or removing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 2, 2016 Share #10 Â Posted January 2, 2016 The Leica CL imposes more severe restrictions on retractable lenses as they would damage the light metering cell. In a digital M you would put the shutter at risk which is more distant from the lens mount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 2, 2016 Share #11 Â Posted January 2, 2016 Old story. http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12283 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/15169-modern-5028-elmar-collapsible-on-m8/ Do as you like with your gear folks but i've been using my v1 & v2 Elmars 50 for more than ten years on various digital bodies and as far as i'm concerned i will never run the risk of triggering the shutter whilst the "tube" is retracted. YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted January 3, 2016 Share #12  Posted January 3, 2016 There is absolutely no technical reason why you can't safely fully retract any 50mm Elmar (or 50mm Summarit etc) into a digital M body. Any interpretation to the contrary severely misunderstands Leica's recommendations, the bulk of which is centred around idiots trying to mount and retract un-suitable lenses. Clearly if the photographer is clumsy mounting the lens in its retracted position could cause the black paint inside the camera to be scratched if it isn't lined up properly. And Leica's instruction do not say you can't retract them anyway, so just do it. If it needs saying yet again, none of the digital M bodies have a light meter arm dangling down in front of the film/sensor area as with the CL, so you won't damage it, it isn't there.   Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 3, 2016 Share #13  Posted January 3, 2016 Not sure if there is a way to misunderstand Leica's recommendations: « Lenses with retractable tube can only be used with the tube extended, i.e. their tube must never be retracted into the Leica M. This is not the case with the current Macro-Elmar-M 90mm f/4, as its tube does not protrude into the camera body even when retracted. It can therefore be used without any restrictions.  » BTW do not try to retract the "tube" into Sony A7 bodies either. It hits something when the lens is focused on infinity, on my A7s at least. Now, as always, YMMV . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted January 3, 2016 Share #14  Posted January 3, 2016 There is absolutely no technical reason why you can't safely fully retract any 50mm Elmar (or 50mm Summarit etc) into a digital M body. ...  Well, there certainly is a technical reason why you can't retract a 50mm Summarit. Now the Summitar might be possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 3, 2016 Share #15 Â Posted January 3, 2016 Well, there certainly is a technical reason why you can't retract a 50mm Summarit. Now the Summitar might be possible. Â You caught that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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