APO-Vario-Elmarit-SL 90–280 mm f/2.8–4 —Just the facts please

[wlaidlaw]

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Any actual news on when this lens will be shipping? 

 

Look two posts above yours. 

[mmx_2]

The weight is even more important. Right now the 105-280 is about the limit of what I am prepared to carry. If truth be told, even a bit beyond it nowadays.

I for one would love a fresnel 300mm f4 from Leica (or 350). Like the new Nikon 300 f/4 PF ED VR it weighs less than 1 kg and is the size of a 24-70 f2.8 zoom. But I know Leica is very conservative so I guess this will never happen...

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[LocalHero1953]

I have heard a whisper that release may have been put back to 2nd quarter now due to demand for the 24-90. 

Back in November a dealer told me "May-ish", so there may be no change of plan.

Edited January 25, 2016 by LocalHero1953

[sdw]

Back in November a dealer told me "May-ish", so there may be no change of plan.

 

 

Thanks  

[bencoyote]

280 is usable on Safari, but on the short side. 400 is bettter. I normally use an 1.4 Apo-extender for that reason on my 105-280. Given the price of an SL I would suggest that buying a other brand  might be more cost-efffective for one-time use.

 

Here is a kind of crazy idea. When you get the SL and the 90-280 also pick up a used T body. If you need more than 280mm stick the 90-280 on the T where it will act like a 420. This will also give you a backup camera body should something go wrong with the SL. 

 

That idea is sort of the reverse of my long range plan I'm planning to go the other way:

Buy the 90-280 to use on my T, then at some time in the future buy the SL body and eventually maybe the 24-90 but I'm less certain about that.

[LocalHero1953]

What a great idea! And if I can adapt it to an iPhone, it should be a 1500mm lens - problem solved! (I'm guessing the actual FL, but it must be massive)

[wlaidlaw]

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Here is a kind of crazy idea. When you get the SL and the 90-280 also pick up a used T body. If you need more than 280mm stick the 90-280 on the T where it will act like a 420. This will also give you a backup camera body should something go wrong with the SL. 

 

That idea is sort of the reverse of my long range plan I'm planning to go the other way:

Buy the 90-280 to use on my T, then at some time in the future buy the SL body and eventually maybe the 24-90 but I'm less certain about that.

 

That is exactly the same as taking on an SL and cropping the image. 

[k-hawinkler]

That is exactly the same as taking on an SL and cropping the image. 

 

Hi Wilson,

 

Leica SL pixel pitch: 6 µm

Leica T pixel pitch: 4.77 µm

 

Really?  Same focal length of 280 mm.  The T should capture more detail, about 26% more, no?

Edited January 26, 2016 by k-hawinkler

[tom0511]

That is exactly the same as taking on an SL and cropping the image. 

 

Not really. Cropping to the same FOV would resisnt in 10 MP from the SL vs 16 from the T

[steppenw0lf]

Happy with my M9-P and M-Monochrom cameras, the only reason I would buy the new Leica SL would be to use the APO-Vario-Elmarit-SL 90–280 mm f/2.8–4 for an African safari, probably in September or October next year. Because there is so much speculation and so many truly boring and opinionated statements on the SL, I would like to reserve this thread for facts about this lens now and, eventually, user experience with it as well as pointers to interesting reviews of it.

 

Two things that I would like to know now is, What will be the price? and When will the lens be available? Also, having seen the MTF-charts on Kristian Dowling's blog, from my rudimentary understanding, the MTF of the 90–280 looks substantially better than that of the 24-90? Is my understanding of the charts correct?

 

Hi not_a_hero

,

maybe this is not what you want to hear - but you can delete it right away if you like:

For one time use (one safari) I would recommend the Canon 5Ds with 100-400 (L, newest version, not the older and cheaper one) plus 1.4 L extender. (No delivery problems, you can buy it now and do 6 months of training. The combo is heavy, so you will need the training).

The 5Ds can be used as fullframe (50 MP), but also with 1.3 and 1.6 crop factor (still 30 and 20 Megapixel respectively). And with this you get an equivalent lens range from 100 to almost 900 (400 x 1.4 x 1.6) with image stabilisation and autofocus. Closest distance of the lens is at any position less than 1m !!  So never take it off the camera. Start without the 1.4 extender, add it only for the biggest distances.

(With the 2x extender you get more length but would lose autofocus, so not worth the trouble).

 

Stephan

[Jeff S]

Hi not_a_hero

,

maybe this is not what you want to hear - but you can delete it right away if you like:

For one time use (one safari) I would recommend the Canon 5Ds with 100-400 (L, newest version, not the older and cheaper one) plus 1.4 L extender. (No delivery problems, you can buy it now and do 6 months of training. The combo is heavy, so you will need the training).

The 5Ds can be used as fullframe (50 MP), but also with 1.3 and 1.6 crop factor (still 30 and 20 Megapixel respectively). And with this you get an equivalent lens range from 100 to almost 900 (400 x 1.4 x 1.6) with image stabilisation and autofocus. Closest distance of the lens is at any position less than 1m !!  So never take it off the camera. Start without the 1.4 extender, add it only for the biggest distances.

(With the 2x extender you get more length but would lose autofocus, so not worth the trouble).

 

Stephan

 

Also a remarkably well constructed lens...  http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/02/canon-100-400-is-l-mk-ii-teardown-best-built-lens-ever

 

Of course the crop factor will alter the field of view, not the focal length....one can achieve this in PP if desired.

 

The new 70-300 L ii  IS lens is also a great performer, and is much smaller and lighter than the new 100-400L ii....  http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-70-300mm-f-4-5.6-IS-L-USM-Lens-Review.aspx

 

The good news is that there are many good options these days to suit most needs and preferences; the SL and the 90-280 should be stellar....I'll also be curious about the price.

 

Jeff

Edited February 4, 2016 by Jeff S

[steppenw0lf]

Also a remarkably well constructed lens...  http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/02/canon-100-400-is-l-mk-ii-teardown-best-built-lens-ever

 

Of course the crop factor will alter the field of view, not the focal length....one can achieve this in PP if desired.

 

The new 70-300 L ii  IS lens is also a great performer, and is much smaller and lighter than the new 100-400L ii....  http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-70-300mm-f-4-5.6-IS-L-USM-Lens-Review.aspx

 

The good news is that there are many good options these days to suit most needs and preferences; the SL and the 90-280 should be stellar....I'll also be curious about the price.

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff,

thanks for the interesting link. But the price is clear - just ask a dealer for pre-ordering it.

In Middle Europe prices are 6900 for SL, 4300 for 24-90 and about 5000 (maybe 4900) for 90-280 (all euro). Is this what you meant ?

(in dollar just about 7500, 4900 (?!) and 6000 (?!)  Not exactly, but close enough for planning. )

Stephan

[xjr]

For such rare use requirement may I suggest a used but near mint Nikon D800 [ about £1100] plus the Nikkor 200mm-400mm f4 VR AFS IFED [used about £2500 ?]. 

Total £3600 which is £1400 less than just the body of the SL !

[Guest]

xjr - thanks but, as i wrote in post #52 above, I have the  Nikkor 200-400. However, as it weighs 3.3kg,  it's simply too heavy for me. I bought it in 2009 for a safari that didn't materialize — and then never got around to selling it because, whenever I had a buyer I was on the wrong continent: when I had a buyer in France, the lens was in the States; when I had a buyer in the States, I was in Asia. I'll make a serious effort to sell it when I get to the States at the end of April. 

Edited February 7, 2016 by not_a_hero

[Jeff S]

Not a Hero - Seriously use your Nikon 200-400 and get a body such as a D7100 or D7200. That way you have a 300-600mm lens that is image stabilised, one of the best and sharpest zoom lenses EVER made and in the right focal length for what you need. A 70-200 is way too short and 400-600mm is in the ballpark.

 

 

 

Once again, a cropped view does not change focal length, only field of view.  One can accomplish the same using a 'full frame' camera and cropping in post (taking into consideration other factors like pixel pitch, print size, etc).

 

Jeff

[Jeff S]

Actually you can't because the pixel density will be a lower when cropping a full frame image. The pixel density and resolution is a lot higher on an APS size sensor.

 

 

 

Re-read my post, including reference to pixel pitch.....one of many factors that varies based on the actual camera used, not to mention the practical result considering the ultimate display situation, e.g. print size.  

 

Either way, your statement that the focal length changes due to cropping (highlighted above) is incorrect, and that's the real point.  

 

 

Jeff

[Guest]

Not a Hero - Seriously use your Nikon 200-400 and get a body such as a D7100 or D7200. That way you have a 300-600mm lens that is image stabilised, one of the best and sharpest zoom lenses EVER made and in the right focal length for what you need. A 70-200 is way too short and 400-600mm is in the ballpark.

 

If it's too heavy for you then mount it on a monopod - bit confused here though as I use my 200-400 handheld all the time and it's been my go to long lens ever since I bought it. In conjunction with a D7100 which is a fantastic camera with brilliant IQ it gives a hand hold-able 600mm lens.

 

Get the 1.4 or 1.7  Nikon converter and you have a very usable and sharp 800mm or 1000mm lens.

 

Nikon D7100 with handheld and wide open at the 400mm end Nikon 200-400mm with 1.4X NIKON converter giving the equivalent of a 800mm lens that is easily hand hold-able...You have this lens just buy the body - will be a lot cheaper and to be honest far more suited to what you need

 

palmac  - thanks. Lot's to consider here but, having digested the information in this thread, I've given up on the idea of considering the SL and the 90-280. 

 

The alternatives for me, now are:

 

1. Going "retro" with the M9-P and M-Monochrom and Visoflex 3 + Telyt 400/6.8 and my M-Macro 90/4 and 135/4. This leaves a gap at 200 or 250, as my Telyt 200/4 is not that good. I'm not likely to choose this alternative, but it's there,

 

2. Borrowing back my Nikkor 70-200/2.8 plus TC1.4 from my son — and buying an Nikon 7200. That would give me an FOV of 105-300 without the TC1.4 and 147-420 with the TC1.4. I like the Nikor 70-200 and it has good stabilization. This alternative is a real possibility that I have to consider.

 

3. Alternative 2 plus bringing my Nikkor 200-400.

 

I agree that the Nikkor 200-400 is an excellent lens, but I find it very heavy at 3.3kg, particularly considering its length. Jaap, who has a lot of safari experience, wrote earlier in this thread that the Telyt 105-280/4.2 is the heaviest lens that he's willing to consider — and that weighs 1.95kg. A monopod that you suggest, is not that manageable inside a safari vehicle — a bean bag is better in my view, but the Nikkor 200-400 is still too heavy and awkward to manage for me.

 

I should add that I don't need a field of view of 800-1000 — not with the atmospheric effect of heat or use in a vehicle. 

Edited February 9, 2016 by not_a_hero

[Jeff S]

The new Canon 70-300 L version ii  weighs only 1kg, is weather sealed with IS and ultrasonic AF, and terrific optics.....albeit a slower lens f4-5.6....not a problem in daylight or on a support (especially with IS).  Get a cropped camera (like the Canon 7Dii *) to mount it if you really think that's better than cropping an image in post rather than using a full frame camera (like the 5DS with 50MP)....I don't.  And the lens is only about $1300.

 

*  http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/11/cracking-open-the-7d-ii  (best weather sealing lensrentals has seen)

 

BTW, you can rent any of this if you don't want to buy.

 

Jeff

Edited February 9, 2016 by Jeff S

[wlaidlaw]

The elderly Telyt Visoflex lenses are not great, other than in the dead centre of the frame and I think you might find the whole set up too cumbersome and slow to use on safari. I tried changing the focus screen on the Visoflex to a modern split image surrounded by micro prisms and it was faster but less accurate than the original ground glass. I am selling off my Visoflex III and its 400 and 560mm Telyts. The 400/6.8 would probably be fine on a tripod from a hide but not otherwise. I was trying to use a more modern but still manual focus set up with either Olympus EP-5 or M240 with Vario Elmarit R 80-200 and 2X extender on a boat safari in India and my focus hit rate was disappointing low. I was still getting camera shake even with the excellent 5 axis stabilisation on the Olympus. I ended buying an Olympus 75-300 AF Mk.2 lens (150-600 EFOV) and my hit rate has improved to close to 100%, with far less camera shake. I would hope to get similar results but with even better optical quality with the 90-280 SL I have on order. I would recommend going with the modern Nikon set up if you will not have the 90-280, which my suspicion is that we will not see before June or July. 

 

Wilson

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[Guest]

Wilson - you're right, the Visoflex III is cumbersome even if one has practiced a lot. I took it to the Galapagos around 1992 and it wasn't much fun. The timing for the SL and 90-280 could be okay because I won't be going to Africa until around October, but the lack of a 1.4x tele-extender would be a problem because, as Jaap justifiably pointed out earlier, the reach of a 280mm lens simply isn't enough — even if I would swallow the cost. That leaves the Nikon setup of the Nikon 7200 camera and the Nikkor 70-200/2.8 and the TC1.4.

 

 
Jeff S: Since I have access to the Nikkor  70-200/2.8 and the TC1.4, and like and have good experience with this setup, I doubt that I would want to switch over to the new Canon 70-300 L version ii, thought it sounds very good from what you say.
 
 
Another issue is where we want to go. There was an interesting article on December 18 on walking safaris in Tanzania, where there are chimpanzees. The article is called A different take on the safari in Tanzania. But that's too much walking for my wife, and probably for me too. As mentioned earlier, years ago we've spent two years in Uganda and camped all over East Africa just by pitching out small tent anywhere we wanted to stay. These days one can't do that. We've been to see gorillas near Bukavu, in Kivu Province of the Congo, as well as in Rwanda; we've been to Luanga in Zambia; we've been to Botswana and to Namibia. Perhaps this thread is not a good place to discuss this, but I would love to pick Jaap's brain and that of anyone else that has suggestions.