APO 50mm Summicron Flare Issue

[keenr]

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Is it just coincidence to hear of abnormal flare cases ( 2 in this thread) both with very similar (yet older) sn's 4189xxxxx, and both sold as new in 2015? I have yet to hear or see of abnormal flare on any 50 APO with (newer) sn's > 4499xxxx.

 

Hopefully the issue is resolved on newer factory built models.

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[jaapv]

My preference all along (including good iq) has been to purchase in 2015 a 2015 factory built 50 APO. Not a 2012/13 version, possibly shelved then and/or since retrofitted.

 

Simply stating the obvious, if investing in 2015 in a 8kusd lens, one would prefer a most recent factory built product,ie: sn >4499xxx

And who is to say you did not get just that? With Leica numbering is never sequential. The parts are taken randomly from a parts bin that is replenished in batches. There are cases of lenses bearing numbers that date a decade before introduction of the lens. The lens number is an identification of the lens only and not more than  marginally time-related.

The production date is an irrelevancy anyway as every lens of a specific type must match the specifications of the reference lens.

It is a while since I bought a new lens, but I seem to remember that the production date can be found on the barcode sticker on the box, I might be mistaken, though.

[cirke]

 I seem to remember that the production date can be found on the barcode sticker on the box, I might be mistaken, though.

I have scanned the 2 barcode on the box of my 24 Summilux and there is no date at all

[lct]

Production date i'm aware of is printed on the guarantee card. See #9.

Both Keenr's copies had a 04189xxx serial number and a production date in April 2015. 

Edited July 17, 2015 by lct

[ivohula]

Reading the above discussion, what is upsetting to me is the fact that Leica will not acknowledge to me, the customer who just spent 8k on their lens, that it was assembled in 2015 with a low serial number, as several bloggers above insist. Leica will also not confirm this to my dealer, who asked point blank, the same question. When asked if this lens was assembled in 2013, Leica will not deny this either. Leica will only say that this lens entered North america in 2015.

 

If the lens was assembled in 2015, then say so and do not go on some cagey semantic driven narrow explanation. Similarly, saying it was partly made in 2013 and completed in 2015 sounds like wishful thinking to me. Especially if the lens shows a fault which led to a redesign between 2013 and 2014.

 

We may see some lists of batches of serial numbers for the 50mm APO eventually and I believe they will confirm that 04189xxx numbers will be credited to 2013.

[cirke]

 Look at the date stamped in your guarantee card. My 4296*** is from "2014/07/03".

 

LeicaM_5020a_gara_p05.jpg

there is no date on the guarantee card  (bought new) , or anywhere on my  24 summilux 

[jaapv]

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Ah - bloggers have access to Leica's records? To anybody who has ever looked into Leica's production history this whole discussion has a high through-the-lookingglass rating.

 

Once again: Since 1927 and into 2015 everybody with  just an inkling of knowledge of Leica history knows that gear numbers and production dates can be sketchy. Read the historica section. Gear, especially lenses, turn up all the time that deviate even from lists that have been compiled by authors that had access to Leica's official records, like Lager and Puts.

 

Several posters on this thread have explained that this is a total non-issue.

Even if this lens was one that was already part-assembled before Leica halted production and was picked up by a worker to be finished to the new specification quite some time later, what on earth is the difference to a lens that fails a QC test and is pushed back into production to be redone up to spec? All through the years Leica has been producing batches of lenses and selling them off from stock randomly, only starting a new batch after stock runs out (leading to shortages from time to time) Especially with the more exotic and expensive ones.

 

Just keep your guaranty card as proof that no customer touched it with his grubby paws before you got it, like LCT suggests and start using the thing

[Exodies]

As the theme of this tread is repetition, repetition, repetition, I will repeat my comment.

 

Why, when trying to get help with a flare problem, has nobody posted an example of it?

 

Or is the serial number the only issue?

[pop]

there is no date on the guarantee card  (bought new) , or anywhere on my  24 summilux

 

As far as I know, it is the dealer who puts the date on the guarantee card. In any event, this was the case for all Leica products I bought new, and I don't think there's more than one date on each card. This makes sense because the guarantee starts the day you buy the product and it is the guarantee card which you pass along should you sell the product.

[cirke]

As far as I know, it is the dealer who puts the date on the guarantee card. In any event, this was the case for all Leica products I bought new, and I don't think there's more than one date on each card. This makes sense because the guarantee starts the day you buy the product and it is the guarantee card which you pass along should you sell the product.

Then there is no way at all to know the fabrication date  ?

[jaapv]

LCT refers to the date that is printed on the card by the factory  as shown in post #9, not to the filling out by the dealer. This being the thing I referred to by mentioning the barcode.

 

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[cirke]

LCT refers to the date that is printed on the card by the factory  as shown in post #9, not to the filling out by the dealer. This being the thing I referred to by mentioning the barcode.

 

there is nowhere a date on my 5 boxes inside or outside

[jaapv]

So memory is fallible and it is on the card... The card was in the box, one might presume.

[honcho]

........is the serial number the only issue?

 

Seems to be the case that the OP is more concerned about the lens serial number and date of manufacture in case this might indicate the lens is older stock that has been modified.  Most who have replied don't appear to own the lens anyway, so the thread is becoming a geekfest.

 

Wy not just use the lens for what it was designed for? If you can create flare (shouldn't be too difficult), there might be a problem there might not. 

 

Post some images.

[Matlock]

So memory is fallible and it is on the card... The card was in the box, one might presume.

I keep all cards and boxes. Not one card or box shows the date. The post on 51 is interesting as I have never seen a date shown thus.

[lct]

[...] Or is the serial number the only issue?

 

Not the only issue but the only topic here seemingly: #1

[jaapv]

I keep all cards and boxes. Not one card or box shows the date. The post on 51 is interesting as I have never seen a date shown thus.

I have had several.

[Matlock]

I have had several.

I did not doubt you. I wonder if it is a regional thing?

Having said all that I have never had any flare problems and I have to agree that Leica numbering is a mystery to most people (maybe to Leica themselves?).

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[keenr]

I conclude we have a standoff on whether an APO 50 Summicron, SN# 4189xxxx is infact first produced in 2012/13 or in 2015.

 

I do recall the term "mystery" first given to the "flare-design" issue before that was overturned in 2013 - which led to retrofitting of some 50 APO's.

That mystery has lead to these kind of threads, whereby we attempt to ascertain the factory date of a Lens, and whether it has been retrofitted.

It's also a mystery that Leica starts to add a date (without explanation of its purpose) on the lens/camera box and warranty cards, starting sometime in 2014. 

 

To resolve such mystery(s) and to help settle the 4189xxxx date saga, is someone on this blog authorized to speak on behalf of Leica?

 

If not, who should one call to obtain such information, Ghost-busters? 

 

BTW, thanks all for sharing on the subject...it is certainly a dynamic cheer-team behind this forum.

[thighslapper]

Not a stand-off ..... just a failure of belief .......

 

All the offending old production 50 apo's with a problem were rounded up, corrected and sent back to their owners with the relevant modifications. 

 

Production was halted for over 6 months till Leica were confident that the problem was solved, and then restarted. 

 

The serial number on the barrel tells you nothing about when it was actually ASSEMBLED, TESTED AND BOXED FOR SALE. 

 

The likelihood of Leica having an old production 50 APO overlooked on the shelf which they have dusted off and sold is vanishingly small.

 

The likelihood of a dealer (outside Hong Kong) with an unmodified old stock Apo 50 on the shelf that he has 'forgotten' to sell is also highly unlikely.

 

There are plenty of threads on this forum discussing instances of serial number discontinuities and inexplicable numbering .... which is why most of who have been here a fair while see nothing suspicious or unusual .....