Leica Upgrade program for M9 ( corrosion of sensor)

[DigitalHeMan]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have not heard anything from Leica to correct the policy conveyed to me by their official dealer here in Oregon, Leica is limiting gratis sensor replacements to original owners. It is the holidays, and customer service is apparently shut down, so it's unlikely I'll get a correction, or confirmation, until next week. When I do I'll post it here.

 

 

Whilst you're waiting, rather than reposting the same thing here each time, why not ask your dealer for the written statement they have received from Leica that highlights the sensor change only applies to the original owner. I expect they have no such statement and, together with the anecdotal suggestions on the forum, you can quickly get your dealer to back down.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Berth]

Whilst you're waiting, rather than reposting the same thing here each time, why not ask your dealer for the written statement they have received from Leica that highlights the sensor change only applies to the original owner. I expect they have no such statement and, together with the anecdotal suggestions on the forum, you can quickly get your dealer to back down.

 

A good suggestion, although a bit inconvenient for me since it would entail a 200 mile drive to do so. I think I'll wait to get word directly from Leica, then decide my next step.

[Raid Amin]

1. Leica should invest more in the post sales service instead of opening so many boutiques worldwide !

 

2. Consider replacing the IR cover glass that is over the sensor with another type of cover (BG-18) that is less sensitive to humidity.Do this only for defective sensors,

 

3. Be more consistent in deciding whether to charge or not charge for sensor issues repairs.

 

 

4. Stop the bargaining at the repair counter by giving a 5 years warranty on cameras as with lenses

 

5. Don't ever stop making CCD based Digital cameras.

 

6. Make the upgrade from the M9 immediate, even if the sensor is working.

 

7. Leica has a special relationship with a niche market segment that is historically invested in old and new M mount lenses and has followed the company through and contributed to its transition to the digital age. Unfortunately, a significant portion of the users in this niche segment cannot afford products priced at the luxury-niche level. And many who do make the stretch are doing so with the idea of being able to use the camera for a longer period of time. This part of the market deserves a no-frills, reliable, moderately priced option that offers full M mount compatibility, full frame, at a premium over other non-RF products, but still at a price affordable for this loyal base.

__________________

[Raid Amin]

1. Leica should invest more in the post sales service instead of opening so many boutiques worldwide ! Another view is: I think the Leica boutique stores are an invaluable addition to the Leica culture. They support local Leica artists by giving them a space to showcase their work, they hold workshops, and last but not least you can walk in with or without your own camera and try any of the current products without any pressure to buy.

 

2. Consider replacing the IR cover glass that is over the sensor with another type of cover (BG-18) that is less sensitive to humidity.Do this only for defective sensors,

 

3. Be more consistent in deciding whether to charge or not charge for sensor issues repairs.

 

 

4. Stop the bargaining at the repair counter by giving a 5 years warranty on cameras as with lenses

 

5. Don't ever stop making CCD based Digital cameras. This is a wish that may be difficult to satisfy.

 

6. Make the upgrade from the M9 immediate, even if the sensor is working. Others suggest to replace only defective sensors.

 

7. Leica has a special relationship with a niche market segment that is historically invested in old and new M mount lenses and has followed the company through and contributed to its transition to the digital age. Unfortunately, a significant portion of the users in this niche segment cannot afford products priced at the luxury-niche level. And many who do make the stretch are doing so with the idea of being able to use the camera for a longer period of time. This part of the market deserves a no-frills, reliable, moderately priced option that offers full M mount compatibility, full frame, at a premium over other non-RF products, but still at a price affordable for this loyal base.

 

8. Leica's only chance for survival is to market to luxury/upscale demographics. Leica's brand must resonate with these demographics. Quality and excellence are crucial to maintain and enhance the brand image.

 

 

9. Leica is looking for new buyers, who will buy a body and four new lenses, and put 20k on their credit card in one day. But at the same time they want to keep referring to the history, and those collector/users, who were there long before the digital system was sold

[DigitalHeMan]

Raid,

 

I appreciate your intentions in putting this list together, but do you really think there is anything here that they haven't heard before? Why do you think Alfred is going to listen to you over all the other people that have already provided this same feedback? Just interested.....

[jaapv]

A bit puzzled. Why should Leica replace corrosion-free cameras? Only a percentage is affected. My sources inside Leica tell me the percentage is not that high.

 

Leica clearly does not agree with the idea of surviving by catering to one affluent clientele. They are moving into the lower echelons by offering the T and X series, they cater to the professional market by offereing the S series and buying Sinar, they have a strong position in offering professional video lenses, binoculars, rifle scopes, observation scopes, etc. I think they are beyond the point that they absolutely need the M series to survive.

[Raid Amin]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi Simon,

I will chat with the CEO about the issue of seeing some Leica users being dissatisfied with some Leica digital cameras. I will listen to him to learn about what Leica will do and not do. I do not expect anything at all other than chatting with the CEO of Leica AG.

 

 

Raid

 

 

Raid,

 

I appreciate your intentions in putting this list together, but do you really think there is anything here that they haven't heard before? Why do you think Alfred is going to listen to you over all the other people that have already provided this same feedback? Just interested.....

[Raid Amin]

A bit puzzled. Why should Leica replace corrosion-free cameras? Only a percentage is affected. My sources inside Leica tell me the percentage is not that high.

 

Leica clearly does not agree with the idea of surviving by catering to one affluent clientele. They are moving into the lower echelons by offering the T and X series, they cater to the professional market by offering the S series and buying Sinar, they have a strong position in offering professional video lenses, binoculars, rifle scopes, observation scopes, etc. I think they are beyond the point that they absolutely need the M series to survive.

 

 

It seems that not all Leica users have identical expectations from Leica. I am glad to see Leica address several of the issues that are being discussed.

A good suggestion was to ask Leica offer a camera rental service for the time period during which Leica cameras are being repaired in Germany.

[DigitalHeMan]

It seems that not all Leica users have identical expectations from Leica. I am glad to see Leica address several of the issues that are being discussed.

A good suggestion was to ask Leica offer a camera rental service for the time period during which Leica cameras are being repaired in Germany.

 

 

Leica does offer this service to some users already, either directly or via their dealer network.

[DigitalHeMan]

Hi Simon,

 

I will chat with the CEO about the issue of seeing some Leica users being dissatisfied with some Leica digital cameras. I will listen to him to learn about what Leica will do and not do. I do not expect anything at all other than chatting with the CEO of Leica AG.

 

 

 

 

 

Raid

 

 

I think that has already been made fairly clear in the official statement from Leica, but good luck.

[jaapv]

Leica does offer this service to some users already, either directly or via their dealer network.

They offer loaners to registered professionals and to amateurs who would be unreasonably handicapped by the loss of their camera ( for instance when leaving for an important holiday).

[Edward Louis Marit]

1. Leica should invest more in the post sales service instead of opening so many boutiques worldwide ! Another view is: I think the Leica boutique stores are an invaluable addition to the Leica culture. They support local Leica artists by giving them a space to showcase their work, they hold workshops, and last but not least you can walk in with or without your own camera and try any of the current products without any pressure to buy.

 

 

 

2. Consider replacing the IR cover glass that is over the sensor with another type of cover (BG-18) that is less sensitive to humidity.Do this only for defective sensors,

 

 

 

3. Be more consistent in deciding whether to charge or not charge for sensor issues repairs.

 

 

 

 

 

4. Stop the bargaining at the repair counter by giving a 5 years warranty on cameras as with lenses

 

 

 

5. Don't ever stop making CCD based Digital cameras. This is a wish that may be difficult to satisfy.

 

 

 

6. Make the upgrade from the M9 immediate, even if the sensor is working. Others suggest to replace only defective sensors.

 

 

 

7. Leica has a special relationship with a niche market segment that is historically invested in old and new M mount lenses and has followed the company through and contributed to its transition to the digital age. Unfortunately, a significant portion of the users in this niche segment cannot afford products priced at the luxury-niche level. And many who do make the stretch are doing so with the idea of being able to use the camera for a longer period of time. This part of the market deserves a no-frills, reliable, moderately priced option that offers full M mount compatibility, full frame, at a premium over other non-RF products, but still at a price affordable for this loyal base.

 

 

 

8. Leica's only chance for survival is to market to luxury/upscale demographics. Leica's brand must resonate with these demographics. Quality and excellence are crucial to maintain and enhance the brand image.

 

 

 

 

 

9. Leica is looking for new buyers, who will buy a body and four new lenses, and put 20k on their credit card in one day. But at the same time they want to keep referring to the history, and those collector/users, who were there long before the digital system was sold

 

 

I think this list is getting too long and if it were me listening to all 9 of these ( 7 and 8 which in fact conflict with each other) I would quickly tune out and get off the phone as fast as possible.

 

I buy numbers 1 through3 , they are reasonable and constructive. I would drop the rest of them from the conversation.

[Raid Amin]

I know that the list needs to be edited and trimmed. What I listed are concerns that have been raised. This allows others to add their feedback.

[lucerne]

I know that the list needs to be edited and trimmed. What I listed are concerns that have been raised. This allows others to add their feedback.

 

Raid.

With respect, in my opinion, you are preaching to the converted here on this forum with your expanded list of commercial demands but we neither run the company or formulate future product development. . If you desire, focus those ideas at Leica via the direct channel you have established. We are satisfied that Leica have made a commitment regarding sensor replacement which was the original topic of this thread. All other possible business strategies are not our business.

Let's evaluate the sensor replacement program based on user experiences in the coming months. If it fails to satisfy us, we'll certainly make that known.

A good New Year to everyone!

[norm_snyder]

While I was pleased that Leica were considering the upgrade option, and I would agree with Raid that they might make it "immediate," offering a part exchange for an M240, I think that by this having to be direct with Leica, they are hurting their existing [non-Leica owned] dealer network. Why not support the dealers by allowing trades through them and not just direct with Leica? This would allow them to sell existing inventory and might generate some orders from the dealers. It would build goodwill, support existing users, dealers and the company at the same time.

 

Instead, the company seems to be moving in the direction of the Leica Boutiques, a niche market, and not all their dealers have the size or market to support developing one of these franchises. I would love to be able to call Dan Tamarkin in Chicago, explain what's going on with my sensor and have him be able to continue to provide the same great service he has given me in the past, as had Don before him.

[essvaun]

Having just read every post here my question remains (as it does for several others) - will second owners be accomodated? From what I've seen here & on their site there has been no unequivocal response from the company.

 

I've worked my way into owning a very lightly used - 1200 actuations - M9P, along the way traded a couple of film M's & a few other cameras. To think I've worked towards this & bought a camera that risks becoming an unrecoverable & unusable lemon is disheartening.

 

While I'm a second hand owner of the body (which still cost $4K) I have a new summicron to go with two film bodies, a second hand summicron & (hopefully) several decades of photography & my peak earning years (again, hopefully!) ahead of me. We can't all drop $20K on a new body & three lenses but we are propping up a second hand market that in some small way helps justify the cost of the new gear.

 

From what I can see I'll have to email them directly (the dealer here will never see my shadow let alone another of my dollars), if I recieve a response I'll post it.

[k-hawinkler]

Having just read every post here my question remains (as it does for several others) - will second owners be accomodated? From what I've seen here & on their site there has been no unequivocal response from the company.

 

I've worked my way into owning a very lightly used - 1200 actuations - M9P, along the way traded a couple of film M's & a few other cameras. To think I've worked towards this & bought a camera that risks becoming an unrecoverable & unusable lemon is disheartening.

 

While I'm a second hand owner of the body (which still cost $4K) I have a new summicron to go with two film bodies, a second hand summicron & (hopefully) several decades of photography & my peak earning years (again, hopefully!) ahead of me. We can't all drop $20K on a new body & three lenses but we are propping up a second hand market that in some small way helps justify the cost of the new gear.

 

From what I can see I'll have to email them directly (the dealer here will never see my shadow let alone another of my dollars), if I recieve a response I'll post it.

 

 

My suggestion, after you email Leica in Germany, a few days later follow up with a phone call.

[tenmangu81]

A bit puzzled. Why should Leica replace corrosion-free cameras? Only a percentage is affected. My sources inside Leica tell me the percentage is not that high.

 

Interesting. Do you have an estimation ? Do you know if some only are affected (serial numbers) ?

Thanks.

Robert

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Universalb50]

I'm a second owner, and my sensor was replaced for free, but I was obliged to pay for the RF calibration. This is such a fine camera that I'll be happy to pay for another sensor replacement, should that ever be necessary!

[jaapv]

Interesting. Do you have an estimation ? Do you know if some only are affected (serial numbers) ?

Thanks.

Robert

No I have no precise information. I would think it unlikely that specific serial numbers are affected.