Not 100% convinced the MM gives better B&W images than say a M240/Nikon

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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 But as you have a 'Fine Art' web site going to the extreme in finessing a product should be second nature, otherwise it's just 'art' with a small 'a' isn't it?

 

Steve

You might as well have said that in Chinese ...................as I have no idea what you are talking about  What's my website got to do with anything?

[Lenshacker]

Hay lensshacker.

The Y52 filter you are talking about ........is the 52 the filter size or a number for the color. I take it Y is for yellow right??

Maybe I should try a filter or two on my MM and see if that will change my mind

Later

 

Nikon and some other companies used a naming convention that gave the overall color and the "cutoff wavelength",

Y44= Yellow, 440Nanometers (Light Yellow)

Y48= Yellow, 480 Nanometers (Medium Yellow)

Y52= Yellow, 520nanometers (Deep Yellow)

O56= Orange, 560nanometers

R60= Red, 600nanometers.

 

I would suggest you try the Orange filter for an increased contrast.

 

The ability to optically filter light and have all pixels "on the same wavelength" is where the Monochrom excels.

 

Sidenote: I just noticed one of my favorite books for this "Filters and Their Uses", W Bradford Shank, is copyright 1939... You might look up some older books such as "The Leica Manual" by Morgan and Lester, and a few others from the day of Black and White photography. They provide a lot of good tips.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Lenshacker

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[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Nikon and some other companies used a naming convention that gave the overall color and the "cutoff wavelength",

Y44= Yellow, 440Nanometers (Light Yellow)

Y48= Yellow, 480 Nanometers (Medium Yellow)

Y52= Yellow, 520nanometers (Deep Yellow)

O56= Orange, 560nanometers

R60= Red, 600nanometers.

 

I would suggest you try the Orange filter for an increased contrast.

 

The ability to optically filter light and have all pixels "on the same wavelength" is where the Monochrom excels.

Cheers mate............I will see if I can get the Y52 to fit my Noctilux and 21mm Lux in Malaysia and if not I still have time to get someone to hand carry them from the US to Nigeria for me

Thanks again for taking the time to help

Neil

[Lenshacker]

If you can get a "Series VII Adapter ring" for your lenses, Series VII Yellow, Orange, and Red filters are easy to find. I use Series VII on a few of my lenses, and even more Series VI on most of them.

[Jeff S]

Most importantly, your lenses will look so cool.  Choose the color you like best.

 

Jeff

[jaapv]

Correct,

I have used ND filters when shooting wide open with the Noctilux but never used any other form of filter. But since lensshaker has offered some advice rather than sarcastic comments then I will try some out once he answers my previous reply about the yellow filters

Basic Photography #1....Not sarcastic, just gobsmacked...

[Lenshacker]

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Some of us forget how old we are, and that Basic Photography #1 for the Digital age is very different from film days. That's probably why so many M Monochrom owners get attached to the camera: it lets us practice techniques that we learned when young.  

 

This is with the yellow filter on a Nikkor 10.5cm F2.5, probably at F4.

 

Mt Vernon by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

I think you will like the results.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Lenshacker

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Basic Photography #1....Not sarcastic, just gobsmacked...

Jaap

As you well know I have been doing Photography as a hobby for less than 5 years and never used colour filters...............My bad, I guess I need to read more books or attend more classes on photography so that I can pass that basic class you are referring too..........Pathetic

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

If you can get a "Series VII Adapter ring" for your lenses, Series VII Yellow, Orange, and Red filters are easy to find. I use Series VII on a few of my lenses, and even more Series VI on most of them.

Lenshacker

I checked some Malaysian sites and they all seem to have to order them in so I guess B&W is the place to go. I looked on there website and see they have 6000 plus adapter rings so no idea what to get. I can get yellow and orange rings with the thread size that I need for my lenses so I will get a couple of them B+W filters and see how I get on.

I do remember talking about filters back when I bought the MM but never followed up on it

[jaapv]

 

 

Some of us forget how old we are, and that Basic Photography #1 for the Digital age is very different from film days. That's probably why so many M Monochrom owners get attached to the camera: it lets us practice techniques that we learned when young.  

 

This is with the yellow filter on a Nikkor 10.5cm F2.5, probably at F4.

 

Mt Vernon by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

I think you will like the results.

 

 

 

 

Sure, however, if you start out by converting a colour image, the effects of colour filtering are highly relevant in postprocessing.

[Jeff S]

Sure, however, if you start out by converting a colour image, the effects of colour filtering are highly relevant in postprocessing.

Exactly.  And even more flexible digitally (with a color file) as one can simultaneously change multiple color channels, unlike using lens mounted color filters.

 

Either way, it's critical to understand how and why they work….or not.

 

Jeff

Edited April 18, 2015 by Jeff S

[Lenshacker]

Series VII filters will be too small in diameter for the Noctilux, even though adapters for it are made.

 

You are best to go with the B&W filters made in the size for your lenses. 

 

Really sad-

 

https://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/filters/WorldOfFilters.pdf

 

In the latest catalog from B&W, filters for black and white photography have been relegated to page 30 and 31. Older brochures dedicated much more space and had more example images from each filter. Next nice weekend I'll bring the Monochrom, a Tripod, and a whole range of filters to get some comparisons.

[Lenshacker]

Sure, however, if you start out by converting a colour image, the effects of colour filtering are highly relevant in postprocessing.

 

Just to be clear, the image that I posted was with the M Monochrom with the LTM Nikkor and Y52 filter.

 

I did have interesting results using the Yellow filter on the M9 and writing my own monochrome conversion software. I wanted to see how close it could come to the Monochrom. Less interpolation required, but the Monochrom does not require any interpolation. Writing the software also let me practice skills learned when I was young. Fortran-77. 

Edited April 18, 2015 by Lenshacker

[platypus]

Neil, before you order your filter consider a medium red (sorry don't know a number for it) I have used that for the MM

since day one and find it works the best. You do lose a stop but I haven't found this to be a problem, and I know you tend

to use a tripod anyway. However adding a filter is not the ultimate answer, you will still need to do some post processing,

contrast increase etc. I have tried both orange and dark red filters and find the medium red the best by far.

 

I realise you don't have any background in b&w film photography, but what we are dealing with here is a little camera that thinks

it's shooting film, and it wants to be treated as though it is, that's one of the reasons us oldies love it so much!

[thighslapper]

Neil ..... the only way you will convince yourself one way or the other is to spend a few days taking identical images with both or all 3 cameras with similar (preferably identical) lenses and then process the results to see which produces the 'best' images .......

 

.... and you will need a mix of low light, high contrast and other subjects with tonal differences and lighting to be certain about things......

 

there will be some shots where the differences between MM and B&W conversions will be minimal .... and others where it will be blindingly obvious.....

 

.... and of course it all depends on your definition of 'best' ....... and how to like your B&W images ..... only you can tell .... 

 

unfortunately your original statement is based on a gut feeling rather than logical evaluation .........

 

there WILL be a difference ....... it's just whether the difference to your eyes is enough to make it worth having a solely B&W camera .......

 

having said that ........ if you use the MM consistently you find yourself looking at potential subjects in terms of tonality and light/shadow and ignoring colour .... and the best B&W shots tend to pick themselves after a while ...... dipping in and out of MM use is not conducive to getting the real benefits of the camera ....

[ndevlin]

NWDGolf:  if you don't see it, sell it. Seriously. Why contend with the pain-in-the-ass factors of a MM if the results are not worth it to you.  I feel a huge difference, and the response of viewers to my images confirms I'm not imagining it.  But that's me.  The MM is *all* about your post-pro technique and approach.  If, in your workflow, the results are not visibly better and different, then use a more convenient camera (like the M240). Not every painter likes the same brush. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Fwiw, I ordered yellow filters for all my lenses when I got the MM.  They've never come off and I doubt they ever will. These were impossible to find anywhere but B&H.  But B&H is terrific, and the filters were reasonable, so all was good.

 

- N.

[MarkP]

Neil, before you order your filter consider a medium red (sorry don't know a number for it) I have used that for the MM

since day one and find it works the best. You do lose a stop but I haven't found this to be a problem, and I know you tend

to use a tripod anyway. However adding a filter is not the ultimate answer, you will still need to do some post processing,

contrast increase etc. I have tried both orange and dark red filters and find the medium red the best by far.

 

I realise you don't have any background in b&w film photography, but what we are dealing with here is a little camera that thinks

it's shooting film, and it wants to be treated as though it is, that's one of the reasons us oldies love it so much!

 

 

 

Hi Dee,

 

I've tried B+W Yellow, Orange and Red, and nothing (actually UV) on the Monochrom. 

 

Most of the time I only use UV for lens protection as I'm happy to put the effort into PS for Monochrom files.  There really isn't enough local control in LR or SFX for the photos I want to print up.

 

However when filtering the Monochrom I've settled on orange filtration. Certainly helpful in very flat lighting conditions.  I found orange to be the best compromise with respect to controllable contrast in post-processing (yellow too mild, red too strong for my tastes but certainly very dramatic) and reduction of light transmission. With respect to the latter, orange doesn't slow down too much the lenses with max aperture of f3.4 to 4, but allows more DOF control in bright light for the faster lenses with max. aperture of 1.0 to 2.8.

 

I have bought a set of orange filters so when out and about I can have a most of my lenses filtered at once without having to change in the field.

 

I've tried PL filters on the Monochrom as I thought they could act as a sort of variable contrast filter to darken skies. Although they can work for this, they otherwise have at times given quite bizarre effects on other parts of the image.  They proved much to unpredictable for me (or maybe I'm just thick ).

 

I don't know whether I'd move to a new CMOS-sensor.  The M240 platform is certainly more refined, and it would also be nice to use some other lenses such (and even an EVF at times OMG ).  But in the end it's all about the image, and what I see from the current Monochrom just amazes me every time I use it. 

If, and only if, the mooted new CMOS- sensor Monochrom produced similar/superior results would I change over (and maybe get an APO-50 to go with it ). 

 

 

Regards,

Mark

Edited April 19, 2015 by MarkP

[A miller]

Neil - After a year with my MM, I was a little taken back at how much it had depreciated in the secondary market.  I took a much larger loss on it than I did my M9.   And if you do think to sell it, you probably will save $500-1000 by doing it before the new MM is announced.

[Jeff S]

 

I do remember talking about filters back when I bought the MM but never followed up on it

Apples to apples, I hope you compare MM filtered results to the M240 by taking advantage of (multiple) color channel adjustments in PP for the latter….both global and local.

 

Jeff

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[Lenshacker]

 

Phase One seem to have had no problems with their CMOS Monochrom backs - now there's a good idea   .

 

Regards,

Mark

The Phase One Achromatic+  uses a 39MPixel CCD, is still in their line-up.

 

The new 60MPixel "IQ260" uses a "60 megapixel monochrome full-frame 645 CCD".

 

Which CMOS sensor did they use in the new monochrome back?

Edited April 19, 2015 by Lenshacker