Is there a new M on the way?

[mjh]

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Wouldn't incorporating AF make future lenses bigger?

You bet it would.

 

Leica supports AF with all their camera systems but one – that one being the rangefinder system which by its very nature implies manual focusing. Makes sense to me.

[NZDavid]

Of course there'll be a new version, sometime in the future, maybe even close future, who knows?

But if this camera meets your needs and expectations, who cares? It will not stop functioning abruptly and continue to churn out the images you bought it for.

 

I think that's the key thing. Whatever you buy, make sure you use it to get the best value out of it.

 

Film Leicas were already perfect as a mature technology but digital is still evolving, so we can expect a new model to have some worthwhile improvements. For me, the main areas would be things like reliability, sensor performance, size and weight, ruggedness, and super-clear view/rangefinder rather than lots of whizzbang new features.

 

In the meantime, my current Leicas are still going strong!

[Mornnb]

Leica has never really done things because they're possible or because it's what everyone else is doing. With the exception of the movie button, almost every innovation has been aimed at improving the cameras and the image quality. In 35mm format, I'd be amazed if they moved away from 24MP. There's no point, when the S has the higher MP count. Cramming more, smaller pixels into the same real estate creates all sorts of problems, as the A7r showed. There is a lot Leica can do, though, to improve on what it has.

 

 

I disagree entirely, I see my Leica lenses running into the resolution limit of the 24MP sensor all the time. These great lenses are capable of delivering enough detail for 50MP on a 35mm sensor. 24MP is putting Leica's great M lenses to waste.

That was always the original dream of the Leica, to provide large format like performance in something that will fit in your pocket. Very sharp lenses and a high resolution sensor are how you can achieve that today, Leica already has the former.

 

So, I'd be surprised if the premium M camera didn't continue to strive for that premium 35mm market sector, and AF is probably inevitable as an option - Leica already has the technology. The camera needn't be any bigger, but the AF lens line obviously would be. I guess we could expect lenses that aren't already in the M line to be offered AF - a couple of zooms, and one or two fast primes would be my guess (that's what the T line offers). I wouldn't see any drop off in the production of fine MF primes; if you look at Leica's recent MF prime releases, they have been aimed at the top of the market.

What I would hope for is that in addition to the next all-singing-all-dancing M camera, there will be a stripped back MF version that relies on the optical view finder and what is essential for photography.

 

The Leica M240 is the stripped down digital camera, that it's thing. There is no reason for Leica to attempt to be another 'me too' Canon and Nikon.

 

 

Stefan Daniel said some time ago that Leica would have to look at AF. In their system line up, the T and S are AF, leaving the M as the only non-AF system. To make an AF M camera, Leica would have to produce an entirely new M camera (even if just to include the electronic contacts for the AF lenses) and a new line of lenses. I don't think this is completely unrealistic, particularly if they wish to continue to expand market share.

 

It doesn't make sense to put autofocus in the M. First of all the Rangefinder system works as well as a complicated modern AF system (such as what's in the 5D Mark III) in terms of accuracy and speed. The only thing it can't do is track movement and shoot action. The M is the best manual focusing digital camera out there. And as a long time Canon user, I find manually focusing the M to be as quick as controlling the complicated state of the art autofocus system on this Canon:

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[NZDavid]

Not just quick but a whole lot simpler and extremely accurate. RF is what makes the M so special. If it ain't broke...

[luigi bertolotti]

You bet it would.

 

Leica supports AF with all their camera systems but one – that one being the rangefinder system which by its very nature implies manual focusing. Makes sense to me.

 

I agree : the M system will go on with its RF as long as there will be people who like it... if Leica will decide to evolve the T system to FF it's another question... of course it could be very easy to adapt M lenses to such a body, but it won't be such a feature that can ensure the success of this (possible ?) to-be camera.

[IkarusJohn]

I agree, Luigi. I have zero interest in an AF M camera.

[Jon Warwick]

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I disagree entirely, I see my Leica lenses running into the resolution limit of the 24MP sensor all the time. These great lenses are capable of delivering enough detail for 50MP on a 35mm sensor. 24MP is putting Leica's great M lenses to waste.

That was always the original dream of the Leica, to provide large format like performance in something that will fit in your pocket. Very sharp lenses and a high resolution sensor are how you can achieve that today, Leica already has the former:

 

Very much my experience too. I wish they would have a model that substantially increased the megapixels too, whether that is for color or monochrom.

With things like the 50mm APO, such a sensor might start to put some clearer water between Leica and its 35mm FF competition when it comes to image quality.

My view is supported too by playing with the ultra high resolution "sensor" in my M7 in the form of Adox CMS 20 together with huge 250mb+ drum scans. The quality of images is beautiful as a result. Enlargement potential is staggering. Leica lenses can handle very high resolution!

[jaapv]

Nobody said anything about the camera body size in conjunction with AF, just about lens size.. I too think it unlikely, but not unthinkable that Leica would expand the M options with AF or focus confirmation (most logically only in Live View) whilst retaining the Optical Viewfinder/Rangefinder.

I am with those who do not see the need and can well do without it, but Leica has to consider that they operate in a changing world. Selling cameras to just you and me will not guarantee continuity...

Autofocus won't add anything to the camera size as as it can be done via live view and via the sensor.

 

The problem is the lenses, there's a lot more internal equipment required:

 

http://www.cameraegg.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/sony-zeiss-35mm-14-1.jpg

 

 

http://www.lupico.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Lupico_130528__DSF2312-Bearbeitet-3-1024x682.jpg

 

 

Please leave your autofocus needs to a second DSLR body and don't mess up the M.

[colonel]

.. if Leica will decide to evolve the T system to FF it's another question... of course it could be very easy to adapt M lenses to such a body,

 

it would be a nightmare

 

M lenses are uncorrected for flat sensors. It would mean the FF T would need to have a custom sensor, like the M, which would hit its value proposition if Leica were thinking of using off the shelf (e.g. Sony) sensors

[bocaburger]

Let's remember that the switch to CMOS brought with it live view and movie mode. True Leica could have chosen arbitrarily to cripple them out, but to implement them meant only a couple buttons and buying-in an existing EVF. Designing an entire line of AF lenses would entail enormous R&D expenditure, because Leica knows these lenses will be compared to the MF versions in every possible way, and any lacks will be blown to major proportion on the internet.

[jaapv]

Well, they were in no hurry with the S lenses and the putative M-AF body would be retrocompatible, so they could start with 35, 50, 90. The optical designs are there and the S line would provide quite a bit tricke-down technology. If they should decide to go down that route.

[semi-ambivalent]

why ? isn't it a camera to take photos ?

 

I think everyone here who is honest with themselves knows that's a gross oversimplification. And not just about cameras; if it was true one wouldn't read so much prattle everywhere about e.g., this or that automobile. Aren't they just A ---> B?

 

Leica's palette is bigger than that, because it has to be. I suggest the passions held for the M (good and bad both) is a proof of which they're quite aware, occasional execution errors not withstanding.

 

s-a

[cirke]

I think everyone here who is honest with themselves knows that's a gross oversimplification.

to be honest when I've bought my first Leica (the M9) + 5 lenses and sold all my gear for it it was only to have a small 24x36 system as good as possible + this wonderful 3D effect , and nothing else

 

if Sony + Zeiss in the next years do the same (or even better) I shall certainly sell all my Leica gear

 

It can be Leica , Sony or Toyota I don't care if I get what I want

[Mornnb]

Nobody said anything about the camera body size in conjunction with AF, just about lens size.. I too think it unlikely, but not unthinkable that Leica would expand the M options with AF or focus confirmation (most logically only in Live View) whilst retaining the Optical Viewfinder/Rangefinder.

I am with those who do not see the need and can well do without it, but Leica has to consider that they operate in a changing world. Selling cameras to just you and me will not guarantee continuity...

 

Leica can't survive if all they are is a more expensive Sony. The M has got to stay true to the essentials and the best image quality.

There is no reason for Leica to exist if all they are doing is keeping up with the industry.

[cirke]

but only to be a range finder is not enough to justify 3 or 4 times the cost, something else must come

[bocaburger]

Well, they were in no hurry with the S lenses and the putative M-AF body would be retrocompatible, so they could start with 35, 50, 90. The optical designs are there and the S line would provide quite a bit tricke-down technology. If they should decide to go down that route.

 

That's true, but remember the S being a DSLR begs comparison to other DSLR's, whose lenses haven't used finely-machined, greased brass helicoids for nearly 30 years due to the requirements of AF. So if an M-AF body focuses similarly to the S (rather than having a moveable focal plane...which was problematic on the Contax and met with limited success), the purists will almost surely call into question the "build quality" of M-AF lenses whether it is merited or not. Leica is surely aware of that, therefore I believe they will tread cautiously in terms of adapting S technology. Just my wild speculation of course.

[Rick]

The raison d'etre for Leica is the M. It is Leica's identity. I assume Leica will continue to strive to create a better range finder camera, but it will never be a Leica T or S. AF is alien to to the essence of the M.

 

Rick

[lct]

[...] AF is alien to to the essence of the M.

As is Visoflex and EVF... As long as R bodies will remain in limbo, the new Ms will replace both RF and TTL full frame cameras. Don't ask me if i like that.

[IkarusJohn]

The raison d'etre for Leica is the M. It is Leica's identity. I assume Leica will continue to strive to create a better range finder camera, but it will never be a Leica T or S. AF is alien to to the essence of the M.

 

Rick

 

As is movie, live view and focus peaking ...

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Mornnb]

As is movie, live view and focus peaking ...

 

Disagree. Live view and focus peaking are basic essential features of a modern digital camera. A digital camera without these features makes as much sense as an M without a Rangefinder.

However, to introduce AF would require a big change to the lens design and would remove a big advantage of the platform.