LocalHero1953 Posted March 25, 2015 Share #41 Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) How would you get a movable focus point in LV without AF?I don't think it can work. Quite right - I should have said focus aid area: where the focus magnification area is. Not what I especially want, but probably doable in electronics. Edited March 25, 2015 by LocalHero1953 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Is there a new M on the way?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted March 25, 2015 Share #42 Posted March 25, 2015 I might also put a small amount of money on image stabilisation. . Taken - gladly. Have a look at the sensor array of the (4/3rds) sensor array of the OM-D, with sensor cleaning and stabilisation. A similar ff sensor would add at least 5 mm to the thickness of the M body.... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/242688-is-there-a-new-m-on-the-way/?do=findComment&comment=2786690'>More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted March 25, 2015 Share #43 Posted March 25, 2015 Taken - gladly. Have a look at the sensor array of the (4/3rds) sensor array of the OM-D, with sensor cleaning and stabilisation. A similar ff sensor would add at least 5 mm to the thickness of the M body.... I'm lusting after the OMD EM5II, not least because of the IBIS. I guess you're probably right, however. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted March 25, 2015 Share #44 Posted March 25, 2015 I would be very very surprised if a new M is not announced within the next 12 months, with delivery next spring. And it will not have autofocus, full frame lenses with M-mount cant be made autofocus. Or to say it the other way around, a full frame camera with autofocus cannot be made backward compatible with todays M-mount lenses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 25, 2015 Share #45 Posted March 25, 2015 Ummm...why not? The only drawbacks of AF I can see is the incorporation of electrical contacts in the current M mount and the size of a new lens line. Retaining retrocompatability cannot be a problem if the former two can be solved.. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 25, 2015 Share #46 Posted March 25, 2015 Taken - gladly. Have a look at the sensor array of the (4/3rds) sensor array of the OM-D, with sensor cleaning and stabilisation. A similar ff sensor would add at least 5 mm to the thickness of the M body.... 6.2mm Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted March 25, 2015 Share #47 Posted March 25, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ummm...why not? The only drawbacks of AF I can see is the incorporation of electrical contacts in the current M mount and the size of a new lens line. Retaining retrocompatability cannot be a problem if the former two can be solved.. Autofocus won't add anything to the camera size as as it can be done via live view and via the sensor. The problem is the lenses, there's a lot more internal equipment required: http://www.cameraegg.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/sony-zeiss-35mm-14-1.jpg http://www.lupico.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Lupico_130528__DSF2312-Bearbeitet-3-1024x682.jpg Please leave your autofocus needs to a second DSLR body and don't mess up the M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 25, 2015 Share #48 Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Please leave your autofocus needs to a second DSLR body and don't mess up the M. Leica will not add autofocus to the M system. They developed the T-system for autofocus, which would they change M lenses. I could see them coming out with a full-frame T system at some point in the future, but I think they have a long way to go. Unless they come up with a way to move the sensor instead of the lens elements for focusing. Live view on the other hand will definitely improve. It was rushed, and severely shortchanged in the M240 and I am surprised it hadn't already been improved in the M-P. This is definitely an area that needs to be updated. As for higher megapixel count, I am not sure either. I think that 24mp hits the sweet spot for resolution and dynamic range/ noise. I also see a change on the horizon as far as pricing goes, and I don't think that that the next M should cost $7,000. Leica will probably try to price their next M as high as possible, but I think we are seeing some saturation of the camera market and enough competition to where Leica should seriously think about pricing their products a little better and keep those new factories busy. Probably just wishful thinking on my part though. Edited March 25, 2015 by BerndReini 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 25, 2015 Share #49 Posted March 25, 2015 Leica will not add autofocus to the M system. They developed the T-system for autofocus, which would they change M lenses. I could see them coming out with a full-frame T system at some point in the future, but I think they have a long way to go. Unless they come up with a way to move the sensor instead of the lens elements for focusing. Live view on the other hand will definitely improve. It was rushed, and severely shortchanged in the M240 and I am surprised it hadn't already been improved in the M-P. This is definitely an area that needs to be updated. As for higher megapixel count, I am not sure either. I think that 24mp hits the sweet spot for resolution and dynamic range/ noise. I also see a change on the horizon as far as pricing goes, and I don't think that that the next M should cost $7,000. Leica will probably try to price their next M as high as possible, but I think we are seeing some saturation of the camera market and enough competition to where Leica should seriously think about pricing their products a little better and keep those new factories busy. Probably just wishful thinking on my part though. I hope they don't add autofocus so I can collect the ten pounds from thighslapper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted March 25, 2015 Share #50 Posted March 25, 2015 they will add auto focus to the M maybe a sensor auto focus Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 25, 2015 Share #51 Posted March 25, 2015 Where is the problem if AF doesn't add anything to camera size? More complications hence more risks of bugs i guess but besides that we don't have to buy AF lenses if we are not interested do we. With faster LV & EVF (hopefully), the M will become more competitive on the FF mirrorless market so AF will become soon or late necessary. No wishful thinking from my part as i would prefer a more simple body but the T is made for crop lenses and it's not tomorrow that it will cannibalize M sales most probably. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tookaphotoof Posted March 25, 2015 Share #52 Posted March 25, 2015 Erick, you talked to them and therefore can confirm the M will have autofocus is a fact? Or maybe just a wild guess? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Lowe Posted March 25, 2015 Share #53 Posted March 25, 2015 If they add autofocus I'll switch back to DSLR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted March 25, 2015 Share #54 Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Erick, you talked to them and therefore can confirm the M will have autofocus is a fact?Or maybe just a wild guess? I guess and hope only but it will come :-) Edited March 25, 2015 by erick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted March 25, 2015 Share #55 Posted March 25, 2015 If they add autofocus I'll switch back to DSLR.why ? isn't it a camera to take photos ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rirakuma Posted March 25, 2015 Share #56 Posted March 25, 2015 Wouldn't incorporating AF make future lenses bigger? I personally would not like to see AF on the M line but if it makes no difference in cost or problems then it doesn't bother me. Unless the new M is groundbreaking ergonomically (m6 thickness, super responsive, ibis, no IR filter~almost no chance) I can't see myself affording to upgrade. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Lowe Posted March 25, 2015 Share #57 Posted March 25, 2015 why ? isn't it a camera to take photos ? I bought an M for its relative level of simplicity. The movie mode was already a turn off, particularly since it's a poor implementation compared to the Japanese cameras. The only thing worse than trend-chasing features are half-baked, trend chasing features. The 240's Live view and the optional EVF are half baked, too. I only appreciate them for use with lenses wider than 28mm. But given the choice I would rather have a thinner, lighter and simpler camera. If autofocus is next then I see no use for the M. It will mean larger and heavier lenses because of the AF electronics and motors, etc. Also, it simply boils down to it being a sign that Leica is going in a different direction than I am and I would rather spend my money elsewhere. It's my money, after all, isn't it? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tookaphotoof Posted March 25, 2015 Share #58 Posted March 25, 2015 I probably won't stop shooting Leica, but I'll simply continue to shoot film only with it, by the time my digital Leica dies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 25, 2015 Share #59 Posted March 25, 2015 I bought an M for its relative level of simplicity. The movie mode was already a turn off, particularly since it's a poor implementation compared to the Japanese cameras. The only thing worse than trend-chasing features are half-baked, trend chasing features. The 240's Live view and the optional EVF are half baked, too. I only appreciate them for use with lenses wider than 28mm. But given the choice I would rather have a thinner, lighter and simpler camera. If autofocus is next then I see no use for the M. It will mean larger and heavier lenses because of the AF electronics and motors, etc. Also, it simply boils down to it being a sign that Leica is going in a different direction than I am and I would rather spend my money elsewhere. It's my money, after all, isn't it? Stefan Daniel said some time ago that Leica would have to look at AF. In their system line up, the T and S are AF, leaving the M as the only non-AF system. To make an AF M camera, Leica would have to produce an entirely new M camera (even if just to include the electronic contacts for the AF lenses) and a new line of lenses. I don't think this is completely unrealistic, particularly if they wish to continue to expand market share. But, I'd be very surprised if a new AF camera was their only M camera offering and I'd expect all M cameras to remain compatible with existing MF lenses. The M(240) was a big move from previous M cameras, offering vastly more electronic offerings (LV, EVF, Focus Peaking, Video etc) than previous cameras - it is the all-singing-all-dancing M camera. Granted, that capability was not to everyone's taste (mine included) and the implementation of some features was less than stellar, but I'd hazard that the camera was a success. I wouldn't see Leica backing of that direction. I'd expect them to improve the faults, and offer a better implementation of what they have. Leica has never really done things because they're possible or because it's what everyone else is doing. With the exception of the movie button, almost every innovation has been aimed at improving the cameras and the image quality. In 35mm format, I'd be amazed if they moved away from 24MP. There's no point, when the S has the higher MP count. Cramming more, smaller pixels into the same real estate creates all sorts of problems, as the A7r showed. There is a lot Leica can do, though, to improve on what it has. So, I'd be surprised if the premium M camera didn't continue to strive for that premium 35mm market sector, and AF is probably inevitable as an option - Leica already has the technology. The camera needn't be any bigger, but the AF lens line obviously would be. I guess we could expect lenses that aren't already in the M line to be offered AF - a couple of zooms, and one or two fast primes would be my guess (that's what the T line offers). I wouldn't see any drop off in the production of fine MF primes; if you look at Leica's recent MF prime releases, they have been aimed at the top of the market. What I would hope for is that in addition to the next all-singing-all-dancing M camera, there will be a stripped back MF version that relies on the optical view finder and what is essential for photography. Granted, you will be able to use the top M in the same way, but some people will want something simpler. The apparent slow sales of the M60 would suggest, though, that there isn't a sufficient market for such a camera. Leica maintained the M-E through the M(240) release. I doubt they will continue the M(240) when the new camera is released - what would be the point. That would leave a hole in their line up. We could be looking at a continuation of the three M camera offering: M(240) replacement, at the top of the tree, with compatibility with a new AF line of lenses?? M Monochrom, based on the new sensor or the existing 24MP CMOSIS sensor? M Essentials, same as the new M but without AF, movie, EVF etc - just the new sensor with the optical view finder, LCD for menu settings and chimping etc The problem with this line up is the third camera. What would be the point? Cheers John Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted March 25, 2015 Share #60 Posted March 25, 2015 AF can come from the movements of the sensor, this technology will work certainly very well in the future Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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