mixed feelings after a few years

[Ole Fasmer]

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The basics as I see it: there’s only one current rangefinder system, the Leica M. You have to decide if you need or want a rangefinder camera.

The quality of the pictures is determined by so many factors, many of them highly subjective, that the type of camera or lens plays a very small part. So the reason for having a Leica M is more related to the way you take pictures. Using the rangefinder makes it possible to watch elements (people) move into the frame, while you are composing the image. This is very useful for press and street photography.

So if you need or want a Leica, you have to decide what you are willing to pay. A brand new camera and 3 new Leica lenses will cost more than most people are willing to pay, if we a talking about having a practical useful camera system. So many people go with second hand and non Leica lenses.

[Michael Hiles]

For many of us, used is the best option. I have nothing that I bought new, and I would not pay anything for replacement lenses of the same focal length.

 

There seems to be an assumption in some posts that it is necessary to constantly upgrade to whatever Wetzlar come out with next, or all is lost. I think that is complete nonsense. Are your picture going to be better if you trade your M9 for an M10 (and spending a king’s ransom) – not likely. In the film world, my M2 and Summicron 50 v5 is as good as an M7 and a 50 Apo, for any practical purpose. The pictures will be indistinguishable. If you think you can see a difference, you’re looking at the wrong thing. Next time you look at a Matisse, will you criticize his choice of brushes or turpentine?

 

So perhaps the question is not whether Leica pictures are unaffordable – the real question is whether the chase for the latest gear can be supported. 

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[Tom R]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. Let's be clear - I can afford the leica quite easily. The issue is - am i getting a good value for the expense. I love the camera and i love the lenses, but let's say i did an anonymous set of photos with a 5d3, an A7s, and a M9. If i mixed them all together, would i be able to tell which ones are which? Sure, some lenses have character - i can definitely tell on my 75 summilux. But I'm not a pro, so i dont know how much it matters for other cameras.

 

I guess, it is a luxury to me. And I've decided to try out that luxury. I just dont know if it is sustainable with new bodies at 8000 USD, and other great cameras being far less in price. I can do it once, and maybe once more if there is a new monochrom out. I just dont think I can do it every 3-4 years. It is a very high expense.

 

Ultimately, maybe the problem is that with film leicas, it seems that you could buy one body and use it for 10 years. With digital, the technology moves so fast. Are digital cameras essentially disposable? If so, it will be hard to invest in 8000 USD bodies.

 

I understand the use of old lenses and used equipment. But i could upgrade a 2000 USD body every few years with little concern. At 8000 USD, it gets much more challenging.

 

The problem with technology is that it moves so fast. I upgrade my iphone every 18 mos. And the new one is always much better than old. Upgrading an M digital body is much more difficult due to the price point.

 

I don't know that "disposable" is the word here ... maybe obsolete by design is a better description?  For what it's worth: "technology" suffers from "featurism," which is to say it touts minor (and often less than productive) tweaks as major advances when it is most often NOT the case. Another way of looking at this is popular "tech" is consumer driven and has successfully fostered in the minds of the consumer this idea that churn or "disruption" is somehow equivalent to progress. Perhaps this is easy when one confuses "technology" with "science?" True advances in science are often disruptive, but in more profound and historically significant way than replacing taxi-cab drivers with free-lancers, for example. 

 

Just my opinion ... Your results may vary.

[Jeff S]

In the 3+ years since the OP started this thread, one hopes that he’s addressed his issues by now.

 

Jeff

Edited April 14, 2018 by Jeff S

[Herr Barnack]

All, i own a M9 and a 35 cron, 50 lux (both bought new), and a 75 lux.

I love the lenses and pictures I can take. I like the camera.

 

However, does anyone ever get a little upset about the cost of the products? I have spent over 15000 USD for this kit, and I'm still not done. I look at FF canon cameras and I could do very well for a much smaller cost.

 

I like a RF over a DSLR, but does the cost of leica products cause anyone to second guess themselves? I am not a pro, just a hobbyist, so I probably could also learn alot from a 5d3 and a few primes, or a sony a7s.

 

I dont know how to assess the value of the equipment i have - the pictures are beautiful, but it is hard to put a value on that.

 

I dont plan on selling anytime soon, but i'm not sure i want to expand either. I would like to see more value in leica bodies - i like my M9 but I am blown away by the a7s, and i'm not sure if I am on the right path. I looked at the m-p, but for 8000 usd, it seemed to be a difficult upgrade.

 

I am not upset at Leica over the prices of the M cameras and lenses; however I am a little disappointed and frustrated by my inability to just order whatever M cameras and lenses I would like to have.  I am planning to buy an M10 body and doing so will require moving heaven and earth, buy I will still buy one as soon as I am able.

 

I have read where people say Leica is a passion product; I think that is a much more accurate statement than saying that Leica appeals to snobbish people or to "rich people" (whatever that means) who have more money than common sense.

 

Some people refuse to buy Leica M cameras and lenses because of their prices; some people buy Leica M cameras and lenses in spite of their prices. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Herr Barnack

[tgdinamo]

Ultimately, maybe the problem is that with film leicas, it seems that you could buy one body and use it for 10 years. With digital, the technology moves so fast. Are digital cameras essentially disposable?

 

I agree that digital cameras at the high end until very recently could be viewed as disposable because they had not reached the mix of IQ/functionality/portability that pros and advanced amateurs were looking for (until very recently it could be argued that mix of better low light performance, more resolution, more portable size, and/or better handling were needed). However, that has changed in a big way over the last few years, and now about the only way to upgrade would be to move to medium format (ie some future iteration of X1D, or if Leica came out with some future version of Q in medium format). As far as I"m concerned, before I recently purchased my Q I had carefully considered and was leaning towards A7R3 but finally decided that the additional resolution and arguably somewhat better sensor are no longer going to make any practical difference to IQ and low light performance. So then the decision came down to what is more fun to shoot with (and big part of this hobby to me is not just looking at the IQ of the photos on the computer screen, but also the process of taking the photos which I find infinitely more fun on the Q). Unless my Q breaks I see absolutely no reason why I can't use it for 10 years. I feel very strongly that he photos taken by current Q will easily stand up to just about any camera/lens combo that comes out during next 10 years.

[tgdinamo]

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Here is an article I just came accross that very objectively addresses the questions discussed in this thread. The article covers more than this topic but the intro very nicely addresses this question.

 

https://vieribottazzini.com/2018/04/choosing-the-best-camera-system-for-landscape-photography.html

Edited April 18, 2018 by tgdinamo

[randman]

Relevant topic, especially for a guy like me pondering new purchases. I that admit I am trying to sort out the emotional elements. Which, can be as equally important in motivating me to get out there and shoot. I’ve learned that part through experience.

 

I wonder though if most people feel as though there effort and dollars invested in Leica have rewarded them with images that they cherish? After all, that is what motivates me.

 

I also wonder if committting to a M system would limit my personal family moments captured or increase them? I am coming from a canon 5d system.

 

interesting responses.

[tgdinamo]

Relevant topic, especially for a guy like me pondering new purchases. I that admit I am trying to sort out the emotional elements. Which, can be as equally important in motivating me to get out there and shoot. I’ve learned that part through experience.

 

I wonder though if most people feel as though there effort and dollars invested in Leica have rewarded them with images that they cherish? After all, that is what motivates me.

 

I also wonder if committting to a M system would limit my personal family moments captured or increase them? I am coming from a canon 5d system.

 

interesting responses.

 

I would say if your kids are still young definitely keep the Canon gear around to make sure you catch all the action (ie for kids sports etc autofocus with long lenses is critical so canon makes more sense).

This way you can take you time while you try Leica for other type of family photograpy and see how much you like it and want to comitt to it long term (without worrying about missing family moments since you still have Canon around as insurance).

[randman]

I would say if your kids are still young definitely keep the Canon gear around to make sure you catch all the action (ie for kids sports etc autofocus with long lenses is critical so canon makes more sense).

This way you can take you time while you try Leica for other type of family photograpy and see how much you like it and want to comitt to it long term (without worrying about missing family moments since you still have Canon around as insurance).

 

My full bag of 5DIII and L canon gear was stolen at a job site.   I filed insurance claims and am waiting.  So, I am starting fresh.  The world is my clam.   

 

I do have kids, and dogs, and farm stuff going on with about 10% of professional shoots for industrial clients doing websites and marketing material.  

 

It is exciting to be shopping for new gear, but I am also confused as to why everyone with a Leica is not satisfied with their camera.   For this price, I would expect them to be.  

 

I want to have fun and document my family moments first, and then second contract some jobs.   Getting paid for photography has boosted my skill level faster than anything else.  That part has been good for me and is worth it.   

 

You make an excellent point about having a secondary system to capture action.   

[jaapv]

The people are probably satisfied with their gear as long as they use it within the limits of its design and importantly, within the limits of their own skills. The high price of a product does not necessarily make it more universal, but somehow people feel it should.

[harris92]

This is a very cool set, I hope the quality is decent. If you do not have difficulties with money, then why these torments. The problem is that you realized that you could achieve the same image quality for less money. Well, the main thing is that you are sure in this set and have already understood all its pluses and how to minimize disadvantages. You can say that you are professionally grown with him. Therefore, do not regret anything, but enjoy your acquisition. As for me now portrait camera Canon EOS 80D and as for the beginning fan it suits me, but certainly I save for similar as at you a set. Or can you recommend a cheaper kit? I think you saw a product similar in characteristics cheaper and now regret. Can recommend something?