Q: one handed M use

[pelmen]

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hello, my question is simply can the Leica M-P (240) be used completely one handed (right hand)?

 

Early this year I suffered a stroke which gave me complete paralysis of the left half of my body. I'm still attending rehab and can now walk with a stick and am living independently at home and back at work full time. My left arm has movement but almost nothing of the hand so my left arm is impractical for anything much except holding items against my body to carry them.

 

As a result I can no longer use my Nikon D800E, its just too heavy for steady one handed photography. All through my hospitalisation I was determined to pull through and reward myself with a Leica M but i dont know if I'll ever get use of my left hand enough for fine focusing control. Not having access to an M to try, I was interested to know if it could be used entirely with the right hand/arm only? I expect I'd have to sit to swap lenses (though I expect a 24mm would live on the body most of the time), but can it be focused easily with right hand finger movements, I dont need to use a flash. I have a DLux and a bridge camera already and the DLux is pretty much all I need as a walk around camera I have always dreamt of the M and now the medical bills have tailed off I can start rebuilding my savings and maybe buy the camera of my dreams in the next few months. So if I do, I can't know how well my left arm/hand will recover and if it'll impossible to use an M one handed I'll need to put the temptation aside. Maybe you see this as a impractical purchase, but the hell I've been through has changed my perspective a lot this could be my once in a lifetime opportunity as well as a much needed pick-me-up.

 

thanks, steve

[lct]

[...] can it be focused easily with right hand finger movements [...]

I'm afraid not but you might pre-focus easily with a 24mm lens. You will need a Thumbs Up or same to handle the camera steadily though. Don't ask me if you will take better pictures in AF mode with the D-Lux, especially the current one (Typ 109) which has a 4/3 sensor and is really excellent. Welcome to the forum BTW .

[jaapv]

The M is not that much lighter than a D800 in this context. I think you would be far better off with a high quality autofocus camera. Maybe the RX1 would be suitable?

[pelmen]

Ict, thanks I hadn't considered the thumb thingy, my Dlux is the 6, it was an upgrade from my Panny LX3(my previous favourite camera), I find these compacts really capture the emotion of a scene for me more than a DSLR (which is technically great but shots rarely grab me emotionally). Hopefully the M will be both for me. I assume the weight of the M will be beween the dlux and nikon and I do expect it will be a bit tricky to get used to like everything is for me now. if it helps I'm considering the M-P type 240, 24/1.4 summilux and maybe 90/2.0 Summicron or 90mm macro elmar ( then maybe a cardboard box to live in). After having to learn to walk again adapting to the rangefinder world doesn't scare me so much. I'll do some research into the Thumbs Up and add to my notes.

 

Jaap

 

Thanks but I have cameras for taking pictures that I'm happy with (just bought an FZ1000 purely for astrophotography). Buying an M though is something I've always aspired to, okay yes its partly just for a red dot (though the m-p doesnt have it). I have always enjoyed my Panasonics with leica glass over everything else I use and now it looks like an achievable goal for me to own one, and of course it has to be the best body & lenses brand new and not a second hand older model. Its a good motivator for my rehab and a reward for all the pain and anguish instead of just getting back to where i was a year ago.The only alternative I could consider would be a newer M(after the 240). I just dont want to rush in and buy an expensive paperweight, its something i want to use, not just to own.

cheers

[2wk]

Sorry to hear about your stroke.

 

A 24mm lens would be great to zone focus while stopped down to f8-f16. You could also use a tripod for landscapes etc. if you want an M, get what you want!

 

That being said, I would also recommend an X Vario.

 

Happy shooting!

[BerndReini]

I'm really sorry to hear this. While you recover fully, you might want to look into a Sony RX1 or a Fuji X100s (great sale on these right now).

[Bill W]

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Not knowing where you are, I would try to demo or possibly rent an M. While it would be awkward to use the M one handed, you can certainly use Zone focusing as other folks have suggested. I sounds like you really want one and it might even help with your recovery. Hope you get better.

[graphlex]

My own experience is that the M is fairly awkward to use one-handed, more so than the film Ms. One the other hand the T, matched with an M wide, might do quite well.

[uroman]

I would definitely not get an M for one hand use. I would consider a nice digital point and shoot, or an iPhone, and instead work on PP skills. There is a lot that can be done.

[Herr Barnack]

Steve,

 

What you have been through is beyond terrible - I hope you will continue to make improvements health wise and ability wise. The fact that you are able to work full time again is truly remarkable.

 

Regarding the M240 - one handed operation would be possible but probably inconvenient, but my guess is that it could be done. If you got a 28mm lens to go with your M240, you could zone focus or use hyperfocal technique. Both would require prefocusing for a specific distance and depth of field, but it could be done.

 

I would also encourage you to get a monopod to go with your M240 - given your limitations, it seems like it could be a valuable asset.

 

At the end of the day, if you want the M240 - just buy it. God knows you have earned the right to keep on making images. My guess is that with your determination, you will find a way to play the cards you have been dealt and continue to make photographs, regardless of your limitations.

 

Hang in there, good sir.

[bocaburger]

 

I would also encourage you to get a monopod to go with your M240 - given your limitations, it seems like it could be a valuable asset.

 

I'm thinking a short monopod you could rest in your belt, or a table tripod used as a chest pod, with a pistol-grip equipped with cable release, and a shortened strap around your neck Focusing right-handed with the index finger (focus tab lens would be best), use middle or ring finger to squeeze the pistol-grip trigger. If you have long fingers it will be a big help. Using shorter lenses/smaller apertures/zone focusing would of course be best as much as possible.

 

That said, in this day and age I would think an AF camera would really be a lot more comfortable and convenient. Nothing wrong with the latest small, light APS-C DSLRs. I have a Canon Rebel with the 18-55 IS "Kit" zoom and it is surprisingly good for such an inexpensive optic. Not Leica quality for sure, but remarkble still.

[pelmen]

Thanks to all for the well wishes!

 

It seems there are mixed feelings about one handed use, we all have different strengths and finger sizes and determination but at least it seems its not impossible. My right arm is strong and i could use my dslr with 105 macro lens one handed, but not my larger telephotos (which i use for astro and wildlife). In hospital I bought an iphone and have been making use of that and my dlux6 to keep my eye in and I also have a sony hx300 and panasonic fz1000 so i'm not without a camera in the mean time. I do appreciate all the suggestions as I cant try one myself then M users are the best help I can get (though I do have a Fake brass M2 but its more for show than shots).

 

Guess I'll have to wait a little longer, i'll be better and stronger and be able to save a bit more. I've got tripods and monopods but I avoid easy alternatives, everything is so difficult its all exercise for me and good for my mental well being. It's about feeling normal for me.

 

Take care of yourselves and enjoy the holidays, the light at the end of the tunnel is a shiny new M

[Future2001]

Sorry to hear about your stroke and I'm praying you get stronger!

 

The M is heavy, it's not super heavy but it is noticeable. Supposedly it weights 683g with battery and card give or take. Add a lens and that goes up.

 

The nikon df weighs 983 with a kit lens and battery. 757 without.

 

So the weight can be an issue. I know with mine. I notice the weight.There are times when I have the strap wrapped around my wrist and the camera in my right hand and I say to myself its heavy I should put it around my neck or in my other hand.

 

But like others have said don't take our word for it, go out there, you can test drive the m at a local leica store until march. They give you camera and lens and all they need is a credit card and your id.

 

Test try it for 24 hours.

 

Steven

Kwesi JonesKwesi Jones Fashion Photography

[menos I M6]

Steve, welcome to the forum!

 

Personally I would advice against using a digital Leica M specifically for one handed use.

 

It is possible to set up the camera to make one handed use work, there are other compact, high quality cameras though in this budget which are easier to adapt for use with your right hand only (specifically autofocus cameras, which also offer easier to reach aperture selection with your right hand).

 

 

A few thoughts in non specific order:

 

- I would use a neck strap at all times, adjust it very long so the camera hangs about at belly height, providing freedom of movement, yet relieving your right hand any time you want to easily select aperture, preset focus, change between manual shutter speeds and Auto Exposure mode or change a camera setting (using your left arm to support the camera against your body when attempting to do push-button + scroll-wheel settings in the menu with your right hand)

 

- many people find the different “thumbs up” attachments to be helpful in holding the camera, personally I never found them working for me and rather prefer a naked Leica M body (even with the heaviest of lenses).

You should try if possible.

 

- A grip, as made for the first generation digital Leica M models would be very, very helpful in securely handling the camera. It makes it easier to pull the camera securely with your fingers to eye level and provides some leverage when handholding the camera for prolonged times at eye level with your right hand only.

Leica makes a similar grip for the newest digital M, there are also aftermarket grips available.

 

- in the past there were also aftermarket bottom plates available, which transform Leica's rigid bottom plate into a bottom plate with both a battery and a SD card door. This would make removing the bottom plate obsolete in order to access the battery and card.

I am not sure if this is available for the newest digital Leica M yet.

 

- There have been in the past handles available, which can be screwed into the camera body’s tripod mount.

These grips are shaped like the rounded wooden grip of a one handed gardening tool.

These grips are available nowadays mostly as accessory grips for video applications, adapting DSLR cameras for video production and come in different shapes and materials (mostly black foam or rubber covered).

It might be possible to make use of such a grip for your left hand - not entirely to handle the camera but to aid holding the camera.

 

Such an added grip will make changing batteries or cards more cumbersome, as it has to be removed first to get off the bottom plate of the camera to get to the SD card and battery.

 

- using a Leica M one handed is mostly done pre-focussing and then with the lens at a fixed focus distance, moving your feet or leaning in or out of your subject to fine focus. It is surprising how well this works even with very fast lenses like 50 Summilux or longer, fast portrait lenses if your subject is working with you.

 

- using a wider lens at small apertures pre focussed though is the most straight forward approach in using a M one handed.

 

- you would want lenses with a focus tab (or an addon focussing helper, called "The Steer" which can be added to a lens by fixing it around the focus ring)

Such lenses can often even be roughly focussed by reaching your right middle finger towards the focus tab and roughly prefocus the lens - it is much easier though to simply do this while the camera is suspended on its neck strap and you have your entire right hand to properly pre-focus.

 

- digital Leica M cameras are unreasonably badly designed for one handed use of their settings and menu system.

Buttons to press are placed mostly on the left rear side. While some functions need you to rotate a dial on the right rear while keeping one of the buttons pressed to move though the menu and select settings, sometimes even followed by yet another button press to acknowledge a setting.

It is possible to setup the camera with one hand but it is not optimized for such operation.

 

Fortunately you will mostly set the camera up once and then leave the menu system be, as all important camera settings can be accessed on the outside via mechanic controls.

 

The only exception is setting ISO but this can be circumvented also by an "Auto ISO" mode, making the camera body one hand use only (not so the lenses as mentioned earlier).

 

 

- you mentioned some lenses you are interested in.

Be aware that a 24/1.4 Summilux and 90/2 Summicron are not only among the largest and heaviest Leica M lenses, but also demand some precise focussing when used wide open (which can be circumvented by the pre-focus and fine focus with your feet method).

Both of these lenses do come with rather stiff focussing without focus tab and would greatly benefit from adding a focus handle as "The Steer" if one handed operation is needed.

 

These are the kind of Leica lenses which are very uncomfortable to use on a regular M body one-handedly over prolonged time (heavy) and the weight benefit, coming from a Nikon D800 is not big any longer (provided comparable lenses are mounted on the D800).

 

- regarding lenses for one handed use, personally I would gravitate to the lenses, Leica excels at and which made the M system so fantastic to use: I would select small and light lenses, shying away from the big, heavy, fast lenses.

There is an immense selection of lenses, fitting this perfectly - the 90/4 Macro Elmar, you mentioned surely hits the nail on the head - super lightweight and compact - all around one of the nicest Leica lenses there are!

 

Although I can think up workarounds to use a Leica M with my right hand only, it is not the easiest camera system to do so.

Before committing, I surely would look very hard and seriously towards other systems which cover your favorite focal lengths.

 

You should also (actually first and foremost) get a good idea about using a rangefinder vs. a optical viewfinder camera - this often seems to be a major reason for people to opt out after trying the Leica M for a while.

As mentioned - if you have the chance to rent a Leica M with one lens (your preferred focal length) where you live, DO IT - there is nothing better than actually trying this camera for a few days to get a really strong idea if you can make it work.

I am sure you will find all the help you might need if you have questions around this forum ;-)

[enboe]

You have not mentiond your preferred style of shooting, spontaneous or more deliberate. The hyper focal approach mentioned should be useful for quick shots.

 

I envision a rig as follows: M on top of tall monopod/walking stick, good wrist strap through shutter side eyelet. Possibly add a focus pulling collar or a focusing rod similar to D. D. Duncan's design. Possibly use a shutter release cable actuated by the middle, ring,nor pinkie finger on your right hand, using thumb and index finger for focus. Take the release to the bottom of the camera, I think I have most of these bits lying around if you want me to prototype the rig and take shots of what it would look like. Just let me know.

 

I don't know where you are located or if there is a local Leica store or representative that you could use to try things out. A local club or forum member may also be able to help. Manipulating any M in such a fashion should provide proof of concept,

 

Good luck.

 

Eric

[jaapv]

Ict, thanks I hadn't considered the thumb thingy, my Dlux is the 6, it was an upgrade from my Panny LX3(my previous favourite camera), I find these compacts really capture the emotion of a scene for me more than a DSLR (which is technically great but shots rarely grab me emotionally). Hopefully the M will be both for me. I assume the weight of the M will be beween the dlux and nikon and I do expect it will be a bit tricky to get used to like everything is for me now. if it helps I'm considering the M-P type 240, 24/1.4 summilux and maybe 90/2.0 Summicron or 90mm macro elmar ( then maybe a cardboard box to live in). After having to learn to walk again adapting to the rangefinder world doesn't scare me so much. I'll do some research into the Thumbs Up and add to my notes.

 

Jaap

 

Thanks but I have cameras for taking pictures that I'm happy with (just bought an FZ1000 purely for astrophotography). Buying an M though is something I've always aspired to, okay yes its partly just for a red dot (though the m-p doesnt have it). I have always enjoyed my Panasonics with leica glass over everything else I use and now it looks like an achievable goal for me to own one, and of course it has to be the best body & lenses brand new and not a second hand older model. Its a good motivator for my rehab and a reward for all the pain and anguish instead of just getting back to where i was a year ago.The only alternative I could consider would be a newer M(after the 240). I just dont want to rush in and buy an expensive paperweight, its something i want to use, not just to own.

cheers

I quite understand and only you can determine what you can handle or not.

It must be a positve experience after everything you have been through that you are able to ponder considerations like this.

 

If the weight is no problem I think you should consider that the whole point of the Leica M is the rangefinder focusing. Something like zone focusing is not what one buys the camera for.

I have just been trying this out with my M240, and I would say it is possible to use it one-handed using the right hand, provided one gets a handgrip and uses tabbed lenses.

I struggled to focus my Summilux 50 with my right hand but my Summicron 35 asph was quite doable.

Another lens you might consider is the Super Elmar 21 instead one of the heavy and unwieldy wide Summiluxes.I tried the Super Elmar 18 (which is tabbed) and that one worked quite well using one hand.

Mayby the Leicagoodies "steer" can be helpful.

I am sure a handy Leica repair shop can fit tabs as required.

 

It might slow you down a bit, though.

[MarkP]

I write this as a physician - a difficult situation because you clearly want to continue with the technical aspects of manual camera phtopgraphy. I wonder whether overcoming the challenges of adjusted technique, and the time delay to produce each photograph "single handedly" (pardon the pun ), to use a relatively heavy fully manual camera designed for two hands will actually get in the way of your photography and slow you down to a point where its use just becomes a chore.

 

Testing one out would help you decide, but you may be better with something you can use one handed.

 

Something lighter, auto-focus, with exposure and focus lock with partial shutter button depression, and with a handgrip. Perhaps a FF Sony A7 iteration (or similar), handgrip and one of the spectacular AF Zeiss lenses may be a better option. Oh, and an RX-1 for high quality P&S happy-snaps.

[Guest Her Berger]

Same to me Steve, I also suffered a stroke, first 10 years ago, the second on my 50th b-day.

I had a right side paralysis. (Now I'm a lefty!)

When I had my first stroke, I started with photography. Its been difficult to change lenses and impossible to focus one handed and hold my M6.

But its very good for rehab.

I bought a Pany, a LX3 and later a Fuji X100, both great cameras with slow, but working AF.

Now, roundabout 10 years later, I can use my right hand to hold the camera an focus with the left.

Its a damn great experience to work hard with great tools.

Now I use a MP and a AF Fuji X Pro.

(Second stroke hurts my right eye. In a way its bad that there is grease from my nose on the backscreen ;-)

 

I wish you all the very best.

[thighslapper]

Sorry about your problems .... and I have to agree with the above .... an M is really a non-starter unfortunately......

 

... why not try a Leica T ? ....... it will give you close to M9 image quality and the distinctive Leica look .... and the touch screen and simple 2 dial adjustments of most parameters can be used one handed (although image review and major menu changes may need resting the camera body against the body unless you have long thumbs).

 

with the available AF lenses the combo is not too heavy..... and would work very well single handed .....

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wda]

Steve, welcome to the forum!

 

I am so sorry to read of your plight. However, I look at it this way: you have survived the stroke and are alive!

 

Regarding your question, which has been well answered already. I think it would be frustratingly difficult for you to achieve your desire. Let me suggest an alternative solution. Occasionally I suffer acute arthritis in my wrists and cannot do all that I want to do. My solution lies in the venerable Leica X1 fitted with handgrip and leather wrist-strap. It makes a light and compact package which, despite its slowish and fixed lens, gives me excellent results. I bought it new, when first launched and have not found an upgrade to usurp its role when I am suffering or not. I also enjoy using digital M cameras but I select the best solution for me from day to day. Just a thought for you.

 

Get well soon.