Any Sony A7s Shooters in the House?

[viramati]

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After a week with the camera I have to say that it is quite an extraordinary and versatile tool, for 12mp the files are very good, the high iso is to die for and itt will auto-focus well in near darkness.

Works with all my leica lenses apart from the 28 cron asph which is a bummer as it is my most used lens.

[Nick De Marco]

After a week with the camera I have to say that it is quite an extraordinary and versatile tool, for 12mp the files are very good, the high iso is to die for and itt will auto-focus well in near darkness.

Works with all my leica lenses apart from the 28 cron asph which is a bummer as it is my most used lens.

 

Glad your enjoying it David. I haven't put it down for a single day since I bought it. I brought it with me on my summer vacation to my house in Italy, along with my Rolleiflex TLR and Leica M, and some Leica lenses, and found I hardly/never used the Leica, but kept reaching for the A7s (or the Rollei when I wanted to use film). Looking forward to trying it out with the new Zeiss lenses - maybe they will bring out a 28mm on for you soon...

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[davidschumaker]

I have been using an A7 for 4 months with a Lux 50 f1.4 asph and a 35 mm Summicron f2 asph. I am sold on the A7 and quit carrying my M9. It is 1/3 the price and far ahead of Leica full frame cameras. I use it in low light for street photography and even with a Digadapter (brand name) and Kowa scope for bird photography. It is a joy to shoot. My only complaint is that the menu is so long and complicated it takes getting used to but set up with the focus peaking and magnifier it works more quickly than the M9 rangefinder. I get more acceptable images/shoot than with my M9. Finally, it is smaller and feels great to hold. Why did Leica spend so much time building a "model T" and not a merrorless M?

[cp995]

... Why did Leica spend so much time building a "model T" and not a merrorless M?

 

There are still some "mirrorless" Leica M available ...

[indergaard]

I've used the A7S for two weeks. With a Voigtländer 15mm f/4.5 Super Wide-Heliar ASPH II, Sony/Zeiss FE 55mm f/1.8, Summilux 35 and 50 ASPH FLE and a Novoflex adapter.

 

I was very very pleased with the A7S and also the Zeiss 55mm lens! It was an incredible camera to use during low light. Focusing was a breeze, both manually and AF.

 

But all in all, I ended up returning it. There were a couple of small things that was just so quirky about it that made me really frustrated. Not being able to view images and the menu on the LCD without manually switching between the LCD and EVF kinda made me crazy (I always had to turn it to "Viewfinder only" cause I didn't want the LCD to be on all the time). No automatic magnification when using adapted manual focus lenses also kinda sucks, as I'm used to that with the Leica EVF even. And don't get me started about the poor auto-iso implementation with a default and unconfigurable minimum shutter speed setting of 1/60. Also the focus peaking wasn't really reliable on it. I tried many settings but it always seemed to detect too much in focus all the time. The focus peaking on the M240 is more accurate and reliable based on my experience. And if you enable B&W film mode (even while only shooting DNG) in the M240 and enable Blue focus peaking it is actually the most usable and reliable focus peaking I have ever used, especially combined with auto-magnification while focusing and 5x magnification. Having to press on a button twice to magnify the focus view on adapted lenses doesn't make things better for the A7S either. it should only require one button, or preferably, happen automatically.

 

The size with the FE 55mm lens was also a bit on the big size. It suddenly becomes a very square package. Also with adapted lenses due to the adapter + protruding lens mount + lens. The battery life was terrible, and I found that the silent shutter mode wasn't really usable when I needed it the most: during late night photography in quiet places where there are lots of artifical lights... With the silent shutter on this creates very visible uneven illumination of the captured photograph. Much like a rolling shutter effect, but with light, which makes sense since it's an electronic shutter.

 

There were many things I loved about it too, but all in all, after owning it for two weeks, it actually made me rediscover my M240 and how much I actually love shooting with it. The simplicity of it, the feel of the solid brass body, the optical rangefinder and the very nice shutter sound. Leica has managed to keep things simple, yet very effective, in a small package.

 

The FE55mm was a brilliant lens. It has such a flat field of focus I was amazed. It made my Summilux look "dated" in many photographs simply because of the stunning flat field of focus and edge-to-edge (far out in the extreme edges) sharpness it produced! Quite an amazing lens - I definitely understand why they call it a "Mini-Otus".

 

The files are lovely, and for me, in B&W, usable up to 102400 ISO, no problems! The noise actually looks like film grain. And the colors hold up exceptionally well up to 50000 ISO.

 

I am waiting for the Zeiss Loxia 35 and 50 to launch and to be reviewed. And if Sony fixes some of the extremely annoying usability bugs, and the Loxia lenses are as good as I hope they will be, I might just go back to Sony on a more permanent basis. The flat field of focus on that Zeiss FE 55mm was just awesome. I can only imagine how great it is on the A7R. If I owned a Sony system I would not see any reason what-so-ever to use a adapted 50mm on it, except if one specifically wants a certain type of character that legacy lenses can give. That FE 55mm is just amazing, especially considering the cost!

Edited September 18, 2014 by indergaard

[davidschumaker]

There are still some "mirrorless" Leica M available ...

Leica does not have a full frame mirrorless.

[zlatkob]

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Leica does not have a full frame mirrorless.

 

As far as I know, every Leica M is a full frame mirrorless, except for some half-frame cameras they made decades ago.

[colonel]

I have the A7S

It's super and paradoxically it appeals as a still shooter not a video shooter

 

The files are sharp and crisp, the handling is great (would like a solid detente with the shutter button to assist with silent shutter), silent mode is a blast.

Being effectively ISOless under 12800 for anything other then fine art is tremendous.

 

Interestingly, although I often crop, I haven't found 12mp a handicap. It's still an awful lot of pixels -....

 

Fits in great with my M240. I think a X typ 113 will complete my photographic wants.

[cpc]

But all in all, I ended up returning it. There were a couple of small things that was just so quirky about it that made me really frustrated. Not being able to view images and the menu on the LCD without manually switching between the LCD and EVF kinda made me crazy (I always had to turn it to "Viewfinder only" cause I didn't want the LCD to be on all the time). No automatic magnification when using adapted manual focus lenses also kinda sucks, as I'm used to that with the Leica EVF even. And don't get me started about the poor auto-iso implementation with a default and unconfigurable minimum shutter speed setting of 1/60. Also the focus peaking wasn't really reliable on it. I tried many settings but it always seemed to detect too much in focus all the time. The focus peaking on the M240 is more accurate and reliable based on my experience. And if you enable B&W film mode (even while only shooting DNG) in the M240 and enable Blue focus peaking it is actually the most usable and reliable focus peaking I have ever used, especially combined with auto-magnification while focusing and 5x magnification. Having to press on a button twice to magnify the focus view on adapted lenses doesn't make things better for the A7S either. it should only require one button, or preferably, happen automatically.

 

You could have set up a customizable button to turn the LCD on/off (yep, you can do this) and leave the evf/lcd switch to Auto. The MF assist button apparently is designed so that the first hit allows for the magnifying window to be moved around. This should have been optional though.

The lack of customizable minimum shutter speed with Auto ISO is the most glaring omission, imo. All Sony cameras lack it even though people have been calling for this for ages. That's number one on my list of frustrations.

[indergaard]

You could have set up a customizable button to turn the LCD on/off (yep, you can do this) and leave the evf/lcd switch to Auto. The MF assist button apparently is designed so that the first hit allows for the magnifying window to be moved around. This should have been optional though.

The lack of customizable minimum shutter speed with Auto ISO is the most glaring omission, imo. All Sony cameras lack it even though people have been calling for this for ages. That's number one on my list of frustrations.

 

Wrong. You can set up a custom button to BLANK OUT the LCD. The LCD is still powered on and keeps on draining battery. There is no way to logically switch between the LCD and viewfinder, unless you leave it on Auto and accept that the LCD is on (even if it is blanked out as a black display, though still lit) and keeps on draining battery until the camera shuts of. I want to be able to ONLY use the viewfinder for framing and ONLY the LCD for viewing images and menus. You know. Like you can do on EVERY other digital camera in this class: Leica's, Fuji's, and so on. The EVF eye-sensor should enable the EVF when you put it up to your eye, thus, maximizing power saving. Looking through the EVF to find the correct menu item to enable/disable silent shutter, LCD or EVF view reviewing pictures is just horribly frustrating.

 

I actually don't think the menu system and how the electronics of the Sony was bad at all, something many people think. Then again, I'm a techie and a technical engineer, so maybe that's why. But these three quirks are just pure usability annoyances that is so easy to fix... Details like this always makes me very frustrated. The dot is missing over the i basically... 90% done... I don't understand why companies just can't do it properly. Anyway. Enough ranting. Great camera otherwise, and I loved the EVF!

 

I wish the next M would have exactly that 12mp sensor. It's just an amazing sensor!

[timde]

Thanks for these comments on the A7s.

 

I've saved for an M but can't bring myself to buy one when I know it will loose around 2.000 in value by the time the next M arrives, and that next M should be a little better in areas that interest me (or a cheaper M 60 style camera).

 

For that same loss in value I could get this Sony now ... and take some photos with my Leica lenses which currently sit on a shelf.

[MarkP]

I've saved for an M but can't bring myself to buy one when I know it will loose around 2.000 in value by the time the next M arrives, and that next M should be a little better in areas that interest me (or a cheaper M 60 style camera).

 

For that same loss in value I could get this Sony now ... and take some photos with my Leica lenses which currently sit on a shelf.

 

But that's assuming that you need to replace the M240 with with the six-monthly new model releases by CaNikoSony. If you don't sell it you haven't lost anything on it.

 

Whether it's too expensive to justify the purchase in the first place is a different matter.

 

Or you could buy an M9/ME (new or used with dealer warranty) and an A7* and still have change left over.

[timde]

That is correct. Unfortunately the only digital M that I find interesting is the M 60 ... but perhaps the next M is offering some improvements in the EVF area - builtin Fuji Hybrid Style and no rear screen would be nice.

 

This A7s seems quite interesting in the meantime. It would seem I could set the shutter speed to 125, aperture to whatever, and let the ISO float around the lower ranges without worrying too much about noise. That, along with the EVF, is a big improvement on what I have used before (X-Pro1)

[MarkP]

That is correct. Unfortunately the only digital M that I find interesting is the M 60 ... but perhaps the next M is offering some improvements in the EVF area - builtin Fuji Hybrid Style and no rear screen would be nice.

 

This A7s seems quite interesting in the meantime. It would seem I could set the shutter speed to 125, aperture to whatever, and let the ISO float around the lower ranges without worrying too much about noise. That, along with the EVF, is a big improvement on what I have used before (X-Pro1)

 

But the M60 won't give you better photographs than the M240 and the loss in value for your new M Edn 60 would probably be much higher.

 

The A7S is interesting for its high-ISO performance. I would not be using it at base ISO compared wit my M240 or Monochrom. Within reason you can do the same with Auto-ISO on the M240. I've done just that - set aperture & shutter speed and let the ISO float.

 

To me an EVF is there for when I have to use one. Not my first choice as I like optical finders.

[indergaard]

For that same loss in value I could get this Sony now ... and take some photos with my Leica lenses which currently sit on a shelf.

 

I understand what you're saying, but sadly, it doesn't make sense. A Sony A7S (which is not a cheap camera) will for sure loose more value in percentage in a year or two, when it's been replaced by 1-3 new models. So in that sense, you will probably end up loosing more on that Sony down the line than a M240. But yea, today, I would have purchased a used M240 myself - not a new one. You can find some nice 2nd hand deals on them nowadays.

[indergaard]

This A7s seems quite interesting in the meantime. It would seem I could set the shutter speed to 125, aperture to whatever, and let the ISO float around the lower ranges without worrying too much about noise. That, along with the EVF, is a big improvement on what I have used before (X-Pro1)

 

Yes and no. The Auto-ISO implementation on the Sony cameras are horrible.

It does work in Manual mode however. And as you can say, you can have Auto-ISO enabled and set it at 1/125 and control the aperture... Although that can lead to many over-exposed images if you need to capture images quickly in a environment where the light changes quickly between dark and bright. Also, the EVF won't show you the realtime exposure, so you won't see that your capture is over-exposed before you actually review the image. Which again is a pain to do, because if you've enabled the EVF you have to go into a menu to disable the EVF and enable the LCD - unless you have it on Auto, which will basically mean that the LCD is powered on ALL the time, except when the camera is off.

 

I love the sensor in the A7S and I wish that Leica would put that sensor into a M120 (12 megapixels). I would buy it in a heartbeat! The high-iso performance is jawdroppingly good, and there is zero banding at high iso's. Blacks look black, and the noise looks like analog grain. But there are severe usability quirks on the Sony cameras that needs to be fixed in my opinion.

Edited September 20, 2014 by indergaard

[zlatkob]

- unless you have it on Auto, which will basically mean that the LCD is powered on ALL the time, except when the camera is off.

 

Unless I am misunderstanding, my Olympus E-M1 seems to work the same way. I leave that feature on Auto and although the LCD is powered all of the time, it doesn't seem to be a problem -- it doesn't seem to use much power. I set the camera to sleep after a minute or two of inactivity and have a bunch of spare batteries anyway. Similarly, the Canon SL1 (100D) has no info screen other than the rear LCD, so the rear LCD is always on until the camera sleeps.

[timde]

I measured the power consumption of a Fuji X-Pro a while back. There was some reduction in power usage with the LCD blacked but still on (less pixels are "on"). However the biggest impact was that these mirror-less cameras are always on, the sensor and processor are always working ... so as you suggest, setting the sleep or shutdown to a short time has the biggest impact.

[viramati]

Have just come back from a 4 day photo shoot in Norfolk where I am doing a documentary series for a Cancer charity. I took the Sony A7s, A7 and Leica M with me. For lenses I had the FE 24-70, FE 35 and 55, summicron 28 asph and CV 21/1.8

I used the the A7s with the 24-70 for 95% of the time with occasional use of the A7 with the 35 and 55 and I took total of 12 shots with the leica M and 28. This is a real turnaround for me as I have spent the last few years working with the Leica M system cameras and lenses. The A7s was just fantastic with the 24-70, yes I would have liked the lens to have been a 2.8 but I shot wide open most of the time (f4) and found focusing etc even in low light to be very fast and accurate. the low light capabilities of this camera are just astounding knocking the leica way into the long grass. The only hassle I had is that most of the locations were lit with neon lights and I couldn't really go above a shutter speed of 1/160sec otherwise I go horrible colour banding and I couldn't use the electronic shutter as it got even worse. For documentary work where you don't need huge prints this camera is hard to beat. Of course it doesn't have the leica simplicity etc but as working tool I really appreciated it.

As to battery life I never used more than 2 batteries in a day but then I don't 'machine gun' my shots and tend to turn the camera off whenever not using if for more than a few minutes. If you put the camera into 'aeroplane' mode it helps battery life

Edited September 20, 2014 by viramati

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[MarkP]

Interesting article on A7S high-iso performance for astrophotography.

 

Sony a7S Astrophotography Review