jonoslack Posted February 3, 2014 Share #221 Posted February 3, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) If the response to this design is any indication of the direction Leica SHOULD NOT TAKE, then let's hope it is wrong and that Leica did not try and pull a Hasselblad. Hi John If camera manufacturers took their direction from the comments at Steve's website their only option would be to shut down immediately. Still, the idea that they might do a Hasselblad really is inconceivable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Hi jonoslack, Take a look here CEO Alfred Schopf and future products. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted February 3, 2014 Share #222 Posted February 3, 2014 Another chimping machine? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted February 4, 2014 Share #223 Posted February 4, 2014 Well, if it can take M lenses then it could be a viable backup to a FF Leica. Exciting days ahead to say the least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 4, 2014 Share #224 Posted February 4, 2014 Compact APS with interchangable lens and EVF only, has a sense... but the design displayed by Huff has not : by far too Nexy.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted February 10, 2014 Share #225 Posted February 10, 2014 The market for "tweener" type small cameras seems to be an odd segment. On one hand, consumers are basically ignoring it (mirror-less sales for 2013 were dismal), yet it is quite crowded with offerings (?) Perhaps because, unlike Sony, they technically can't do anything else yet? Personally, I like when Leica offers a true alternative in areas where there is no competition. The M rangefinder has enjoyed this status for most of its existence. Pretenders disappear, the M persists. The only true competition for the M240 is people keeping their M9. However, the S2 is also such a product, and according to Leica themselves has captured 20% of the pro market they were targeting, and is limited only by their production capability. I also think the M Monochrome was a good example of this type thinking. In both cases I feel that these products have tended to shield the buyer from the relentless onslaught of digital obsolescence (ala Sony). They are so good at what they do, that one doesn't feel compelled to jump at every new iteration. In all three above Leicas, the cameras are designed to deliver high performance imagery, are ultra-premium products commanding top level prices for every part of the system. This is their positioning. IMO, if Leica goes for a smaller CL type digital camera, they would do well to keep that in mind. Make high performance imagery the priority, and make it do so in a somewhat unique manner that by its nature defies annual obsolesce … and it will succeed. Make the lightening strike for the fourth time. Any "Me Too" product with a "Good Enough" imagery, is an insult to their own heritage, and the market positioning they worked so hard to achieve. - Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 10, 2014 Share #226 Posted February 10, 2014 Any "Me Too" product with a "Good Enough" imagery, is an insult to their own heritage, and the market positioning they worked so hard to achieve. - Marc I agree with everything you say Marc, but it's important to remember that the PanaLeica's have always sold well and before the M8 came along, they pretty much kept the company going. Leica have also said they want a larger share of the overall camera market (no doubt targets which they have to meet to satisfy their investors) and it's hard to do that with such niche products. I think they do need an AF system camera - the Leica brand appeals to many people but manual focus doesn't. The new T could be a unique new proposition, but I expect it to be a me too/good enough solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted February 10, 2014 Share #227 Posted February 10, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Marc Very well put! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted February 10, 2014 Share #228 Posted February 10, 2014 Marc, James, agree completely. But what is to come? To use an analogy we have seen before on this forum, there was a time Porsche produced sports cars and only one of them was truly iconic. Then they produced the Boxster -- nice, very nice, and consistent with their image. Then ... the Cayenne 4x4. Who would have thought? But what a success. Today there are parts of the world where people are surprised that Porsche also produces sports cars. So are we going to see a 'Boxster' version of the M (X-Vario anyone?) or a completely different '4x4'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJH Posted February 10, 2014 Share #229 Posted February 10, 2014 Boxster version of the M would be the same camera without the rangefinder. Something like 70% of the components in the 986 (original boxster) and 996 (911 at that time) where the same. I can't recall the exact number but it was of that order, the front ends for example are more or less identical. The big thing Porsche did at that time was to completely change their old fashioned and labour intensive manufacturing to a Japanese model. Maybe Leica could be looking at doing something similar with a much higher production volume camera line who knows? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 10, 2014 Share #230 Posted February 10, 2014 or a completely different '4x4'? That would be the S2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 10, 2014 Share #231 Posted February 10, 2014 ….The market for "tweener" type small cameras seems to be an odd segment. On one hand, consumers are basically ignoring it (mirror-less sales for 2013 were dismal), yet it is quite crowded with offerings (?) Perhaps because, unlike Sony, they technically can't do anything else yet? Personally, I like when Leica offers a true alternative in areas where there is no competition... I think this recent post from Roger at lensrentals adds interesting context to your comments, including thoughts on mirror-less, being first, being different, etc. And the fact that history shows we can't predict which companies will win or lose (I recall that Roger also wrote another good article on this topic.) Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share #232 Posted February 10, 2014 SNIP...........Any "Me Too" product with a "Good Enough" imagery, is an insult to their own heritage, and the market positioning they worked so hard to achieve. - Marc Where is the speculation coming from that any new Leica will just have 'good enough imagery' that will be an insult to their own heritage? We have already been told that it will be made in Germany and will have at least some lenses (primes?) from Germany too. I don't know the genesis of the X Vario zoom for example, but the results from that sensor with that lens (and the fixed ones on X1 and X2) are very good indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted February 11, 2014 Share #233 Posted February 11, 2014 Jeff S - That link keeps timing out on me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 11, 2014 Share #234 Posted February 11, 2014 Same here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted February 11, 2014 Share #235 Posted February 11, 2014 I don't know the genesis of the X Vario zoom for example, but the results from that sensor with that lens (and the fixed ones on X1 and X2) are very good indeed. Geoff, here's an interesting article about this lens, an interview with Peter Karbe: Peter Karbe: A Look through the Vario-Elmar Lens I like the drawing of this lens so much, it makes me want to go out and buy a Vario X right now. Since it's an APS-C design, perhaps Leica will make one in T-mount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 11, 2014 Share #236 Posted February 11, 2014 Jeff S - That link keeps timing out on me. Strange…try this for article "Disruption and Innovation" LensRentals.com - Photo/video thoughts from the largest rental house It's a long post. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted February 11, 2014 Share #237 Posted February 11, 2014 Thanks Jeff. I had read the previous article, and this one is just as interesting. I love Roger's pragmatic approach … and his knowledge base is pretty deep and sweeping. "Where is the speculation coming from that any new Leica will just have 'good enough imagery' that will be an insult to their own heritage? We have already been told that it will be made in Germany and will have at least some lenses (primes?) from Germany too. I don't know the genesis of the X Vario zoom for example, but the results from that sensor with that lens (and the fixed ones on X1 and X2) are very good indeed." My comments where in context to the APSc sensor discussion, not a speculation as to whether it will be great for what it is, especially the lenses. IMO, pursuing APSc cameras is a dead end … the field is incredibly competitive, and getting more so by the day … so previous product planning may need a second look as the impact of FF becomes more pronounced. I do understand the need to produce an alternative red dot camera to the M. The question is what does current technology suggest that can be? If Leica were to produce a CL sized camera with its own set of AF lenses … basically a ground up camera … why not a FF one? As Roger mentions, one need not be the first, but to ignore where its all going is just a recipe for falling behind rather than taking the lead … like Leica did eons ago with the rangefinder, and more recently with the S system, and the unique MM. - Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 12, 2014 Share #238 Posted February 12, 2014 IMO, pursuing APSc cameras is a dead end … the field is incredibly competitive, and getting more so by the day … (…) one need not be the first, but to ignore where its all going is just a recipe for falling behind rather than taking the lead … If the field of mirrorless APS-C cameras is incredibly competitive and getting more so, surely that is the direction where it is all going? Whereas we have exactly one vendor cramming a 36x24 mm sensor behind a mount originally designed for APS-C. Other vendors may or may not follow Sony’s example but one thing I am sure of: Leica won’t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 12, 2014 Share #239 Posted February 12, 2014 AF full frame lenses would be bigger and more expensive than R ones, thanks no thanks. Would be great to get a little APS camera to use both M and small autofocus lenses w/o suffering compatibility issues IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 12, 2014 Share #240 Posted February 12, 2014 If the field of mirrorless APS-C cameras is incredibly competitive and getting more so, surely that is the direction where it is all going? Whereas we have exactly one vendor cramming a 36x24 mm sensor behind a mount originally designed for APS-C. Other vendors may or may not follow Sony’s example but one thing I am sure of: Leica won’t. Hold on, Leica don't need to cram a 36x24mm sensor behind a mount originally designed for APS-C, as their M-mount was always designed for full-frame. Also, how do you know that the E-mount wasn't originally designed as a full frame mount? I'm sure you have an explanation, but the fact that it was first released on an APS-C camera does not mean it was designed purely as an APS-C mount ... You have been posting on this forum for months that Leica will not make a full frame mirrorless (much as a large number of us would like them to). I assume that this is because you know something we don't. I'll take your statements on faith. What I strongly disagree with is any suggestion that Leica can't or shouldn't make such a camera, and I will not stop saying so simply because Leica is poised to release another dud. I don't follow your reasoning that Leica should enter a crowded market sector. They'll just look silly, with a mediocre (on paper) camera for a silly price. Leica's success (for Leica cameras) has always been in those parts of the market where they're a little different. Adding an interchangeable lens mount to the X2 & X-Vario line of cameras looks to me like compounding a cock-up. Any idea how they're getting along with their aim of 1% with this strategy? They remain the only manufacturer which makes fabulous, compact full frame lenses that work well (not quite flawlessly, but close) with compact full frame digital cameras. Why wouldn't they play to that strength. Adding an affordable rangefinderless camera to this line saves on the most complex and fiddly part of the camera, and it makes the mount simpler as it doesn't need the coupling. You may hint all you like that the new Leica T camera will be APS-C and not full frame, but that doesn't stop it from being a stupid idea. It just means you know something we don't (for which I am actually grateful to you for sharing, as it spares me the disappointment). As a matter of interest, were you saying that the M8.2 replacement (on 9 September 2009) could also not be full frame (hope springs eternal)? Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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