mmayer Posted November 8, 2013 Share #21 Posted November 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hmmm okay I also use discrete mode and sometimes after taking a shot the shutter would "hang" like it would do a 10 seconds exposure. Could this be an issue with the new firmware? If so can I downgrade and what would I lose doing so? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 Hi mmayer, Take a look here Frustrated... Where is the M9 firmware fix?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
uaqpau Posted November 8, 2013 Share #22 Posted November 8, 2013 The latest firmware version, I use on my MM is FW 1.002, which seems almost stable for discreet mode use. It happens occasionally, that when using discreet mode, the shutter does not re-cock automatically after taking the finger off the shutter release, but the camera will continue to write to card (I presume, as the red LED will keep flashing) and after a several seconds delay will most of the time re-cock the shutter. I always shoot on discreet mode on my MM (latest firmware) and from time to time the shutter does not re-cock automatically... well, it does, but after some seconds. When that happens, if I slightly press the shutter, half way.. it re-cocks immediately. A small workaround for a problem that happens not often. salut, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted November 8, 2013 Share #23 Posted November 8, 2013 Hmmm okay I also use discrete mode and sometimes after taking a shot the shutter would "hang" like it would do a 10 seconds exposure. Could this be an issue with the new firmware? If so can I downgrade and what would I lose doing so? Yes I downgraded to the firmware before the current one. That fixed it, I lose some lenses in the 6bit list I think, but no lenses that I used! You can always upgrade again... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted November 13, 2013 Share #24 Posted November 13, 2013 Hmmm okay I also use discrete mode and sometimes after taking a shot the shutter would "hang" like it would do a 10 seconds exposure. Could this be an issue with the new firmware? If so can I downgrade and what would I lose doing so? I downgraded to FW 1.176 on the M9 for two reasons: - better performance re. discreet mode than last firmware - MUCH faster write times with a certain combinations of SD cards than later firmware versions As mentioned, you loose later introduced lens profiles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoM8 Posted November 13, 2013 Share #25 Posted November 13, 2013 It's a shame that Leica can not create a new firmware. It would be really awesome if they could make one camera to fully completed, but I think it's too much to ask. I hope that the update will be in the near future, perhaps as early as this Christmas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted November 14, 2013 Share #26 Posted November 14, 2013 It is this inability by Leica to fix a well known problem, even still existing on current production ME's, that translates to the end of the road for me with their digital products. Management just buries it's head in the sand hoping the problem will miraculously disappear. Leica could take a lesson from Fuji, still releasing FW upgrades and improvements to the X100, despite the fact it's an older model. Now thats loyalty to its customer base. Once my M9 dies, I'm done with Leica. Praying my Leica lenses kick-ass on a Sony sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted November 14, 2013 Share #27 Posted November 14, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) It is this inability by Leica to fix a well known problem, even still existing on current production ME's And on the current production Monochrom too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcg Posted November 14, 2013 Share #28 Posted November 14, 2013 In fact, considering Leica's inability to support their existing rather limited level of computer functionality - imagine how bad it would be if they produced the all singing/dancing camera that many people want to see in the next generation or 2 of Leica Ms. It scarcely bears thinking about. Maybe Leica really has finally reached the limit of their ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted November 15, 2013 Share #29 Posted November 15, 2013 On discussion with Leica service here in Australia they are expecting/hoping for a FW upgrade for this, but probably not until early 2014. We will see... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted November 15, 2013 Share #30 Posted November 15, 2013 No gear, including cameras are perfect. That includes Leica. The secret is to understand the short comings and work around them, if you can. If not possible, then you have probably chosen the wrong gear for your application. I know this is irritating to some but it is the real world. For those with high demand for 'discreet' function on the M9 the work around is to use the earlier firmware. I have a copy and can email to anyone who PM's me with the request. It does work. As it happens, my M9-P works fine with the latest firmware (after a trip to Solms) but I know some don't. The camera is very useable and despite some disgruntled users is very serviceable as a tool. For it's range of useability, nothing matches it, IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikonJeff Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share #31 Posted November 15, 2013 No gear, including cameras are perfect. That includes Leica. The secret is to understand the short comings and work around them, if you can. If not possible, then you have probably chosen the wrong gear for your application. I know this is irritating to some but it is the real world. For those with high demand for 'discreet' function on the M9 the work around is to use the earlier firmware. I have a copy and can email to anyone who PM's me with the request. It does work. As it happens, my M9-P works fine with the latest firmware (after a trip to Solms) but I know some don't. The camera is very useable and despite some disgruntled users is very serviceable as a tool. For it's range of useability, nothing matches it, IMO. Well that's a nice thought in a perfect world Erl but the reality is that this firmware "glitch" doesn't just affect the M9/M9-P, it also affects the $8000 Monochrom that I own and the M-E that others own. With my M9 I did roll back the firmware to 1.176 to "work around" the discreet issue but with the Monochrom I don't have that luxury, nor do the folks that own the M-E. I sincerely hope that Leica addresses this "short coming" as I have chosen the right gear - have been shooting Leica for over 30 years now… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted November 15, 2013 Share #32 Posted November 15, 2013 I know this is irritating to some but it is the real world. Telling customers of a €7000 camera to work around its' bugs, or to make better gear choices or to just deal with the all too "real world" of bugs, freezes, sd card compatibility problems might all work wonderfully in a fairytale world where you have no competition of any other FF mirrorless camera's that can get better files out of your own lenses. But this is the real world. This is 2013 with people getting sick and tired of getting to hear "yeah, well deal with it" while Leica uses its resources to build more boutiques. This is 2013 which sees the first real competitor releasing a smaller more capable camera for a third of a price. Yeah, this is the real world where customers can soon buy something else and where previous customers of Leica are already telling Leica they are switching as soon as there is a competitor. Yes, Leica, I know this is irritating, but it is the real world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted November 15, 2013 Share #33 Posted November 15, 2013 Indirectly you guys are (partly) agreeing with me. The real world experience is happening and those that choose other gear than Leica, as suggested by pieterpronk, have worked it out, if Leica does not 'do it' for them. Smart move. Leica will eventually (I hope) get it right. Meanwhile, match existing gear to existing needs, or be dissatisfied. Constant quoting of the cost of the gear, as happens here with nauseating frequency, is the dumbest comment of uselessness I have encountered. Not really relevant, but I acknowledge it is annoying. Nikonjeff, please don't suggest I was using a 'perfect world' terminology. I clearly said 'real world' and that is what I meant. All too often this forum is used as a whipping stick for Leica, and probably with some justification at times, but you, the photographer have to take responsibility alone for your choices. No one else. I have spent most of my working life as a professional and quickly learned what survival depended on my decisions, not someone else. In my specific case, the M9 is absolutely fine for my varied demands but I know it is not perfect and not capable of what others may demand of it. They must wise up to that. Calling Leica out repeatedly, IMO, is ineffective. Sending the message is another story. They do need the message. Meanwhile get on with what you do best and don't hold your breath. Life is possible in another space. P.S. Regarding the Monochrom firmware. I don't have one and am not aware of the status. I didn't realize it has the same firmware as the M9. My comments are solely regarding the M9 specifically, but can be axtrapolated beyond I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted November 15, 2013 Share #34 Posted November 15, 2013 That's like saying that in the real world people will keep complaining about bugs on forums anyway. If you don't like it, you should try and find a forum without complaining. You're complaining about people complaining. I guess we do agree that this will always happen in the real world... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted November 16, 2013 Share #35 Posted November 16, 2013 I don't have a wide experience with other forums, too busy really. I suppose my real beef is about whinging rather than complaining. Complaints are necessary. Whinging, to me, seems pointless. I have always beleived in solving my own problems rather than waiting someone else to do it. Come from being impatient probably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikonJeff Posted November 16, 2013 Author Share #36 Posted November 16, 2013 Erl, I have nothing personal to argue with you - my point (I'm the OP) is that Leica has completely ignored an inherent flaw in the firmware that exists (hit or miss albeit) with every full frame RF camera except the current M240 which from what I see on the forum still has some improvement needed. Seriously - Leica was made aware of the issue almost immediately after the release of the 1.196 firmware for the M9 (July 2012?). I contacted Leica NJ in November of 2012 and exchanged emails with the technical group there. That means that the M9/M9-P, Monochrom and MM all potentially suffer from the discreet lockup issue *if* you utilize that function. Fortunately for the M9/M9-P users we can "downgrade" the firmware to 1.176 to eliminate the discreet lockup issue. If you own a Monochrom or M-E, you don't have that luxury to the best of my knowledge. My Monochrom shipped with the latest firmware and locked up tighter than a frog diving on the first discreet mode frame. I've yet to see any previous MM firmware available anywhere. If it exists I would love to give it a try! I know you inferred that it was pointless or nonsense to quote dollar amounts of equipment but 1/2 of my gear is Nikon and the other 1/2 is Leica which all total amounts to about $25k of each. So the amount of money invested in the gear that I use is not trivial (to me). It's just very disappointing that this (IMHO) simple fix has not been implemented and it affects a broad model base… As you said - Leica needs to step up and address issues in a timely manner or face a loss of customers that will migrate to a more stable and better supported platform. On a side note, my Nikon D3 bodies and all of my lenses have yet to fail me and the D3 bodies are 6 years old this month. No memory card issues, no locking up, batteries last seemingly forever. Not my first choice to lug around all that bulky DSLR weight but it works as designed and have produced some very good images for my weddings. I'm not a Leica hater - on the contrary, I LOVE my Leicas - just wish they would work as designed and advertised. I've been a Leica shooter since the late 1970's when I fist shot my grandfather's Leica IIIa - still have the little beauty and it's Summaron 50/2 collapsible lens. Peace and love to you down under! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted November 16, 2013 Share #37 Posted November 16, 2013 Actually the Discreet mode bug was brought to light during the beta. I am pretty sure they were aware if it before, because of how the reacted during the beta. I was and still am angry that Leica with full knowledge released this firmware with this bug, ignoring its beta testers. I didn't upgrade to the 240 because I no longer trust Leica to produce reliable firmware to handle the complex functions on this camera. Since they seem unable/unwilling to fix simple issues on the M9, MM, ME... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikonJeff Posted November 16, 2013 Author Share #38 Posted November 16, 2013 Actually the Discreet mode bug was brought to light during the beta. I am pretty sure they were aware if it before, because of how the reacted during the beta. I was and still am angry that Leica with full knowledge released this firmware with this bug, ignoring its beta testers. I didn't upgrade to the 240 because I no longer trust Leica to produce reliable firmware to handle the complex functions on this camera. Since they seem unable/unwilling to fix simple issues on the M9, MM, ME... That's a bit of information that I was unaware of - makes the whole issue even more deplorable. Talk about about a half-assed implementation... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander Posted November 17, 2013 Share #39 Posted November 17, 2013 I can fully understand your frustration...... I send them some points to correct on tie xvario firmware.... no success as well..... I understand that Leica is a small company and the M240 has taken a lot of their resources to launch/fix/update but come on... The last firmware they released (1.196) for the M9/M9P was July of 2012 and it was not well vetted. The workaround was to install 1.176 (which I did) as I use the discreet mode quite often. I've been corresponding with Mark Brady at Leica USA off and on since last November and he said that Leica was aware of the issue and it should be addressed with the next firmware update but he didn't have a feel for when that would take place... I checked in with Mark 2 weeks ago and he still didn't have any new information for me but suggested that I email the M Product manager directly (Jesko Von Oeynhausen). I emailed him on 10/10/13 and to my surprise I haven't even received a courtesy "Thank you for contacting Leica" email... It's a little disheartening to have all of this money tied up in gear that I love to use (M9/MM and of course Leica glass) that has been more or less ignored. My MM locks up out of the box in discreet mode as well... Anyone else feel this way or is it just little old me??? Definitely has stopped me from even considering an M240 at this point... Signed - holding the bag in NY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 19, 2013 Share #40 Posted November 19, 2013 Actually the Discreet mode bug was brought to light during the beta. I am pretty sure they were aware if it before, because of how the reacted during the beta. I was and still am angry that Leica with full knowledge released this firmware with this bug, ignoring its beta testers. I didn't upgrade to the 240 because I no longer trust Leica to produce reliable firmware to handle the complex functions on this camera. Since they seem unable/unwilling to fix simple issues on the M9, MM, ME... You weren't the only betatester that strongly disapproved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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