IkarusJohn Posted July 11, 2013 Share #101 Posted July 11, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) But not necessarily ZM lenses, Zeiss can easily build a dediccated series. I'm sure they would. For a product at this price level, I can't imagine a Sony kit lens having any appeal. They would also need to be AF, which the ZM lenses aren't ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Shade Posted July 11, 2013 Share #102 Posted July 11, 2013 According to Sonyalpharumors website the NEX-FF photocamera project will come within 2 months.In light of the quality expressed by the Sony RX1®, is there a possibility that - from a technical perspective - the new NEX-FF will impact on Leica affecting the new M240 in terms of overall image quality and sales (being offered at a more affordable price)? I think this is discussed before, and the sony Nex Mount doesn't fit a FF camera in technical calculation. The best they could fit is a APS-H sized censor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted July 11, 2013 Share #103 Posted July 11, 2013 ...here is a good interview that I ran into again from last fall from Sony's Mark Weir: Q&A with Sony’s Mark Weir: Will full-frame go mirrorless, and what’s the deal with Dual AF? Good read. Thanks for sharing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmclalla Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share #104 Posted July 11, 2013 Apart from technical issues (i.e. lens compatibility, is Sony able to realise a FF sensor which can deal with dedicated lenses?), my question is: "Looking for the best image quality, do you think that SONY next FF (NEX or whatever else) can represent a good (or, even, a better) alternative to Leica M?" It seems to me that, right now, Sony RX1 and now RX1R produce stunning results in terms of overall image quality, as recent tests are proving (see, for instance, The Big One: Sony RX1R vs Sony RX1 vs Leica M 240 with 35 Zeiss Biogon. | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 11, 2013 Share #105 Posted July 11, 2013 Not only Sony. We are at a point that there are a few dozen cameras that produce an image quality that is far beyond anything nearly anybody can reasonably need. The camera concept, quality, ergonomics, subjective feel, are far more important. Even if I could buy a FuSonjy that has approx the same image quality I would be most unhappy shooting it after a few months, as my mind and hands are used to Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmclalla Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share #106 Posted July 11, 2013 I do agree with you to the extent that after my M7 with all lenses was stolen, I tried several cameras (from DMF to D800), but, always regretting M approach to photography, I sold everything for the new Leica M. Said that, "image quality", especially if coming from a non-leica camera, still is a chimera which may deserve some discussion ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted July 11, 2013 Share #107 Posted July 11, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not only Sony. We are at a point that there are a few dozen cameras that produce an image quality that is far beyond anything nearly anybody can reasonably need. The camera concept, quality, ergonomics, subjective feel, are far more important. Even if I could buy a FuSonjy that has approx the same image quality I would be most unhappy shooting it after a few months, as my mind and hands are used to Leica. I agree with most of what you've said. From what I hear/read the Fuji's are getting close to the Leica as far as interface is concerned (aperture dial on lens, shutter dial, reasonably well dampened manual focusing rings, etc), though I've no experience at all with the cameras. When I'm in the market for a new camera body, I'll consider them. They'll definitely be in their second generation, possibly third by the time I'm in the market for a new camera body (around the time the M11 should announced). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasf13 Posted July 11, 2013 Share #108 Posted July 11, 2013 I think this is discussed before, and the sony Nex Mount doesn't fit a FF camera in technical calculation. The best they could fit is a APS-H sized censor. Sony already makes a FF sensor in NEX mount in the VG900. The question is how large native lenses will have to be to deal with the mechanical interference caused by the combination of a small mount and very short registration distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasf13 Posted July 11, 2013 Share #109 Posted July 11, 2013 I agree with most of what you've said. From what I hear/read the Fuji's are getting close to the Leica as far as interface is concerned (aperture dial on lens, shutter dial, reasonably well dampened manual focusing rings, etc), though I've no experience at all with the cameras. When I'm in the market for a new camera body, I'll consider them. They'll definitely be in their second generation, possibly third by the time I'm in the market for a new camera body (around the time the M11 should announced). To be honest, as someone who's owned the Fuji X100s, M9 and RX1 simultaneously, I enjoy using the RX1 with OVF more than the X100s. Sure, the RX1 has a mode dial, rather than a shutter dial, but the build and feel of the camera is MUCH higher than the Fuji. Maybe I'd call it a draw, depending on what is more important to you. Both cameras are a bit Leica-ish, but, until one has a rangefinder, it is still just a far off approximation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted July 11, 2013 Share #110 Posted July 11, 2013 To be honest, as someone who's owned the Fuji X100s, M9 and RX1 simultaneously, I enjoy using the RX1 with OVF more than the X100s. Sure, the RX1 has a mode dial, rather than a shutter dial, but the build and feel of the camera is MUCH higher than the Fuji. Maybe I'd call it a draw, depending on what is more important to you. Both cameras are a bit Leica-ish, but, until one has a rangefinder, it is still just a far off approximation. We're in agreement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted July 14, 2013 Share #111 Posted July 14, 2013 Can you keep us informed how this goes? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Hi John, Please have a look here: D800E + 80-400 AF-S • Rufous Hummingbird in Flight (X10): Nikon FX SLR (D1-D4, D600-D800) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review The D800E + 80-400 AF-S seems to be special - if everything works as it is supposed to. My system appears to work really well now. Please, draw your own conclusions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 14, 2013 Share #112 Posted July 14, 2013 Thanks K-H. I like those a lot. The 80-400 seems to be made from unobtainium (like MarkP's M240) - I'm waiting, waiting, waiting ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted July 14, 2013 Share #113 Posted July 14, 2013 Thanks K-H. I like those a lot. The 80-400 seems to be made from unobtainium (like MarkP's M240) - I'm waiting, waiting, waiting ... Hi John, It's in stock here: Amazon.com: Nikon 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR AF-S NIKKOR Lens for Nikon Digital SLRs: NIKON: Camera & Photo I took me 2 days to get it. They would have delivered overnight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted July 14, 2013 Share #114 Posted July 14, 2013 Thanks K-H. I like those a lot. The 80-400 seems to be made from unobtainium (like MarkP's M240) - I'm waiting, waiting, waiting ... Even though my feelings are hurt please free to use me as the butt of your jokes whenever it suits you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted July 14, 2013 Share #115 Posted July 14, 2013 Thanks K-H. I like those a lot. The 80-400 seems to be made from unobtainium (like MarkP's M240) - I'm waiting, waiting, waiting ... I had no trouble getting one of these soon after it was announced. BTW, it is a fine lens and even better club to be used if attacked. It is quite a handful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted July 14, 2013 Share #116 Posted July 14, 2013 I'm not going to speculate whether Sony will ever produce a full-frame camera that can use wide M lenses, but I do believe that they will come out with a full-frame interchangeable lens mirrorless camera in the near future. They are not worried about Leica lenses. It is more likely that they will cooperate with Zeiss to design new lenses. The fact that the Rx1/R is a 35mm focal length not anything longer is already very promising. I suspect that any camera from Sony will have an EVF, which their video cameras have had for years. These are getting better and faster in refresh rate. Such a camera would pose serious competition to Leica, and I really hope that they are working hard to iron out their problems with the new M sensor. The RX1/R definitely seems sharper from what I've seen and the reintroduced IR sensitivity of the M is nothing to write home about either. Because of the new sensor I look at the M as a first generation camera, but considering all the features people have been clamoring for have been included in the new M, it does sound like Leica is listening and actively trying to compete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted July 14, 2013 Share #117 Posted July 14, 2013 I'm not going to speculate whether Sony will ever produce a full-frame camera that can use wide M lenses, but I do believe that they will come out with a full-frame interchangeable lens mirrorless camera in the near future. They are not worried about Leica lenses. It is more likely that they will cooperate with Zeiss to design new lenses. The fact that the Rx1/R is a 35mm focal length not anything longer is already very promising. I suspect that any camera from Sony will have an EVF, which their video cameras have had for years. These are getting better and faster in refresh rate. Such a camera would pose serious competition to Leica, and I really hope that they are working hard to iron out their problems with the new M sensor. The RX1/R definitely seems sharper from what I've seen and the reintroduced IR sensitivity of the M is nothing to write home about either. Because of the new sensor I look at the M as a first generation camera, but considering all the features people have been clamoring for have been included in the new M, it does sound like Leica is listening and actively trying to compete. What problems with the Leica sensor? Some people will always complain, but it is a good sensor, capable of excellent files; needs post processing but that is no big deal. The files are easy to work with. But perhaps to your point, Sony makes great sensors and great EVFs and an interchangeable lens FF Nex-type will be very interesting to see, especially of there are adapters for M lenses. Interestingly, to my surprise I still prefer the Leica OVF for focusing even if an EVF is better for framing at least for wides and longs. Competition is great for the consumer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 14, 2013 Share #118 Posted July 14, 2013 Funny to read that Leica is trying to compete with non competitors just able to make APS cams and a single FF one deprieved of viewfinder and interchangeable lenses so far. It is up to Sony, Fuji or others to take the plunge and demonstrate what they can do to equal the master. As far as rangefinders are concerned, this will never happen IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted July 14, 2013 Share #119 Posted July 14, 2013 Funny to read that Leica is trying to compete with non competitors just able to make APS cams and a single FF one deprieved of viewfinder and interchangeable lenses so far. It is up to Sony, Fuji or others to take the plunge and demonstrate what they can do to equal the master. As far as rangefinders are concerned, this will never happen IMHO. "Just able to make APS"? I'm pretty sure Sony has a reasonably good FF chip in it's own cameras and others? Doesn't it? I don't use Leica for the RF - so if Leica gets beat FF on tech, IQ and the form is smaller I'm outta here. It's just a tool, and for me it's a small FF camera, nothing more, nothing less. Offer me a smaller one and I'll go that route. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 14, 2013 Share #120 Posted July 14, 2013 Funny to read that Leica is trying to compete with non competitors just able to make APS cams and a single FF one deprieved of viewfinder and interchangeable lenses so far. It is up to Sony, Fuji or others to take the plunge and demonstrate what they can do to equal the master... Sony has made quite a few full frame cameras that have interchangeable lenses. When it comes to innovation and implementing technology such as sensors, electronics and features they are way ahead of Leica. AF, IS, and electronic first curtain shutters may allow a cheap APS camera with a kit lens to get sharper results under some conditions than using an M240 with the best prime. And a Nex can shoot at 10 fps. So it depends on how you are using the camera and what you are trying to get out of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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