algrove Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4181 Posted January 20, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Contrary to what some have said here, I distinctly remember a video of a senior Sony manager touting the use of other lenses including Leica RF lenses. Also keep in mind that Sony was encouraging Australians to buy the a7/a7R as they were giving a Metabones adapter of choice. Those are 2 facts, not hearsay. I too bought and have since sold my a7R for nearly the same reasons as Rick. My first real life outdoor test with another friend who was shooting about 100 feet away said he could hear each and every shot I took and joked with me about the clack-clack sound from that distance. On that shoot even my R 15/2.8 was not sharp like I get on my M240. I too was hoping for an M240 backup, worst case, or maybe an M240 replacement, best case. Unfortunately, neither worked out for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Hi algrove, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4182 Posted January 20, 2014 I appreciate the input in this thread from the contributors who've bought and used the camera in good faith, with the intention of finding the best it can do with various lenses, rather than those who wanted to dislike it and find fault from the start. Hey Mani your interpretation of my "+1" does not sound fair my friend. I wanted to thank Rick for having done the hard work i would not have the time to do myself. Fact is that he confirms what i suspected from the very beginning about M wides at least but i would have been more than happy to get a modern digital back for my R lenses given the weaknesses of the M240 from this standpoint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4183 Posted January 20, 2014 BTW, has anyone got the Zeiss FE 24-70 f/4 zoom yet? "26 Dec 2013 - Sony Japan confirms that the Zeiss FE zoom will ship from January 24 ... Trying to figure out why a Zeiss 24-70 f4 is so horribly overpriced at ......" although early feb was the last I heard from the supplier of my camera...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4184 Posted January 20, 2014 Hey Mani your interpretation of my "+1" does not sound fair my friend. I wanted to thank Rick for having done the hard work i would not have the time to do myself. Fact is that he confirms what i suspected from the very beginning about M wides at least but i would have been more than happy to get a modern digital back for my R lenses given the weaknesses of the M240 from this standpoint. Sounds a lot like my position. I voiced my doubts before it came out and hoped I would be proven wrong after launch. No such luck. Fortunately people like Rick saved me the money and the effort. I do hope for those that are using - and liking the A7®, that Zeiss will be less tardy than Leica in delivering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4185 Posted January 20, 2014 Come on guys, take it easy. 'Can't we all just get along?' as someone once said in a movie . I think that was Chamberlin to Hitler. : -) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Jones Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4186 Posted January 20, 2014 Sorry to see this thread sparking to life again, I had the same experience of the A7r as Rick and returned it. There must come a point when the Leica forum gives up the ghost on this and gets back to Leica based discussion. Decency dictates the fans of the Sony could stop running it up the flagpole to see who salutes it in this forum. There's not much point in further discussing Leica lens performance on this camera so why create further discussion of the body here. (Dons flameproof suit) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveclem Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4187 Posted January 20, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) The first rule of Leica forum is don't mention the competition. * prepares for pedantic criticism and definition of competition. **Clearly biased A7 user who, once he gets his b****y adapter will be able to use his R lenses along with his current Nikon ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4188 Posted January 20, 2014 Okay, in the spirit of good faith and getting back to the subject … Sony A7/A7R The camera has its flaws which have been documented beyond death … so one more time won't hurt : -) The shutter is too loud, especially when we expect it to be quiet with no mirror, and it being small like a M. The debate continues regarding what lenses with what adapters on what support system amplifies shutter shock … but it DOES happen for some people/lenses, and not for others. Not all Leica M mount Rangefinder lenses work on it … color anomalies and resolution smearing is the result. My 21/1.4 ASPH works as does my 50/0.95, 75/2AA and 90/2.8. Many Zeiss and Leica W/As do not (which a friend and I confirmed with his set of M mount Zeiss lenses and my Leica ones). By now, most of those are documented as to what does and doesn't work. Two of my six M lenses do not play well with the A7R, one of which doesn't play at all. One thing not often mentioned is the previous shot stays up both in the VF and the LCD. So to keep the EVF as a constant live view, you have to turn off the LCD review. The Sony A99 is the same. Big PITA when shooting quickly and wanting to glance at the LCD review. According to Sean Reid, Leica has solved this issue with their X cameras, so it can be done. There are only 2 current FE native lenses and two Sony adapters to use A mount lenses. Some A mounts are pretty small even with the adapters, but most are too big and defeat the advantage of such a small camera. However, for those with E or A mount lenses they can be used in the interim … or the A7/A7R can be used as a back-up to their existing Sony DSLR/SLT camera. As mentioned, owners hope Sony are fast coming with proper native FE lenses. One thing missing for me is dual card capture. Not an issue for most, but one that makes me nervous when shooting non-repeatable paying jobs. The A99 and Leica S2 used for jobs shoot to two cards. The price of smallness I guess. There is an EVF lag that can mean what you think you shot is actually a nano second later … I haven't experience much of this because of the way I tend to anticipate shots, but can really understand it as a short-coming. AF is decent with the native FE lenses, snail slow with some adapted AF lenses, and just as fast as the Sony A99SLT when A mounts are used with the LAEA-4 adapter (which has additional Phase detection AF and an SLT mirror). The ZA 24/2 is relatively small, fast focusing and stellar optically on the A7R. - Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4189 Posted January 20, 2014 I guess one reason this thread keeps running is that this is the camera many people wish Leica would make. This raises a number of questions, and stimulates a few reactions in forum members: (1) Sony is a big company, specialising in sensor manufacture - could they make a sensor capable of universal capture with a variety of lenses (Sony did say this camera was intended to work with Nikon, Canon and Leica lenses)? (2) for many, Leica's entry into digital has been ropey, and at a minimum not up to the superlative standards (and to be honest, hubris) surrounding its film cameras (3) too many posters here just wanted the Sony to fail, and are completely blind to the shortcomings of the M(240). For myself,I really am not interested in the M(240). I'm interested in a cheaper, non-RF digital back for my Leica lenses. This is not about the M(240) at all. The defence of the M(240) here is not informative, and is, not putting to fine a point on it, tiresome. So, the residual question is, will Leica make the camera many of us have been wanting for some years now (particularly as Sony doesn't seem to be there yet)? Can they? I'd like to think the answer to the second question is yes. Put the CMOSIS sensor from the M(240) in a gorgeous new body without the rangefinder, and price it between the X and M cameras - it will sell like hot cakes. Will they? No. We'll get an APS-C camera, not wrapped in a gorgeous body, and priced at 3 times the other APS-C offerings in the market. And Leica will tell us that this is the camera the market desires, as they know something the other manufacturers (with falling APS-C sales) don't know. Sony is moving away from its APS-C NEX line in favour of the A7, and it seems to be stimulating huge interest (even here). But Leica knows from years of experience that its best policy is not to give people what they really want (it seems). Yesterday's products and technologies are best for them (a ground breaking and market leading XVario for anyone? How about an X2?). So, for all its flaws, the A7r seems to play ball with my 21 Summilux, Noctilux, 75 Summilux and 90 Summicron, and the 35 Summilux (& 28 Summicron, at a pinch) for what I do - and I don't spend my time examining edges and corners at 200% looking for flaws. It's also a relatively cheap camera (in Leica terms), so I will persist with it for the moment. I would ditch it in a heartbeat if Leica offered something competitive; but they won't. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janki Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4190 Posted January 20, 2014 Leica model T against Fuji model x-t ?? Fuji X-T1 camera teaser, specifications and adidional images | Photo Rumors Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4191 Posted January 20, 2014 Contrary to what some have said here, I distinctly remember a video of a senior Sony manager touting the use of other lenses including Leica RF lenses. Also keep in mind that Sony was encouraging Australians to buy the a7/a7R as they were giving a Metabones adapter of choice. Those are 2 facts, not hearsay. I too bought and have since sold my a7R for nearly the same reasons as Rick. My first real life outdoor test with another friend who was shooting about 100 feet away said he could hear each and every shot I took and joked with me about the clack-clack sound from that distance. On that shoot even my R 15/2.8 was not sharp like I get on my M240. I too was hoping for an M240 backup, worst case, or maybe an M240 replacement, best case. Unfortunately, neither worked out for me. To expand on that it was sold by Sony in Australia with the option of a lens adapter including Leica M to Sony! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4192 Posted January 20, 2014 I am trying to sort out what is going on. I was given to understand that the R version with microlenses and with the thinner cover ( no AA filter) would be more compatible with my Leica glass than the 7 with a thicker cover glass and no microlenses. Looking here at 28mm and wider where my M8, not being FF is letting me down. It seems the other way around, or is it unbalanced reports I read, surely the pixel density increase does not more than cancel out those advantages or are they spurious ? I do not care whether I have 24 or 36 MP, or a noisier shutter, or more magnesium, or more fps, just the "best" option for wider glass. Thank you, I already know the best option for Leica wides is an M9 or an M240 obviously. So shall we agree I am looking for second best? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4193 Posted January 20, 2014 The A7R was mostly useless for me with my R Tele lenses because of shutter vibration. This shutter is as loud as a pro DSLR shutter and you can feel the vibration. I would not count on using this camera with long lenses as is... among a list of other problems including bad ISO at 4000 and up, with banding... not to mention the slow low-light EFV lag. Surprised nobody is bothered by this. This camera is not a substitute for the M240 and long R lenses and wide (less than 75mm) R-lenses. Sorry. Use this camera with the limited two Sony system lenses and it will be fine if you enjoy working with limitations. Here is a growing list of samples of the A7R, using Leica glass. Those are the sorts of flaws I could happily live with! The biggest problem with this sort of thing is that it feeds my lust for the VarioElmarit-R 28-90 lens - one which is stupidly over-priced, but seems to produce images which suggest that the price isn't going to fall anytime soon. I'm not really bothered with the list of faults with the camera, if it can produce images like these ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4194 Posted January 20, 2014 I haven't looked at those for some time, plenty of good stuff there even with my much loved 21/2.8 asph, which I thought was a no-no, makes me wonder what the fuss is about. I must have a look on a good monitor Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imants Posted January 20, 2014 Share #4195 Posted January 20, 2014 I haven't looked at those for some time, plenty of good stuff there even with my much loved 21/2.8 asph, which I thought was a no-no, makes me wonder what the fuss is about. I must have a look on a good monitor Gerry That's what happens when one opinion gets so much run time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted January 21, 2014 Share #4196 Posted January 21, 2014 Here is a growing list of samples of the A7R, using Leica glass. Those are the sorts of flaws I could happily live with! The biggest problem with this sort of thing is that it feeds my lust for the VarioElmarit-R 28-90 lens - one which is stupidly over-priced, but seems to produce images which suggest that the price isn't going to fall anytime soon. I'm not really bothered with the list of faults with the camera, if it can produce images like these ... John, I finally had a chance to use this lens with the Leica R-to-M adapter on the M240 extensively whilst on a recent holiday. The lens did not dissapoint. It is indeed every bit as good as it's stellar reputation and insanely rising price (? I thought it was expensive when I bought it but now it's averaging $8000USD on eBay, >160% of what I paid for a mint late model version :eek:) I imagine that it would give spectacular results on the A7R but as we've discussed before I have the M240 and don't want another camera system. If however Leica did produce a rangefinder-free M&R lens compatible FF EVF camera as you've suggested then I may be interested However, I have yet to decide whether I will keep it. Although the IQ is spectacular and there are times when a zoom is the right way to go I think I'm over the zoom thing and I do have an E49 MATE....hmmm.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 21, 2014 Share #4197 Posted January 21, 2014 However, I have yet to decide whether I will keep it. Although the IQ is spectacular and there are times when a zoom is the right way to go I think I'm over the zoom thing and I do have an E49 MATE....hmmm.... I'd be more than happy to take it off your hands ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted January 21, 2014 Share #4198 Posted January 21, 2014 The biggest problem with this sort of thing is that it feeds my lust for the VarioElmarit-R 28-90 lens - one which is stupidly over-priced, but seems to produce images which suggest that the price isn't going to fall anytime soon. I'm not really bothered with the list of faults with the camera, if it can produce images like these ... If you visit the US, you can go home with one of mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 21, 2014 Share #4199 Posted January 21, 2014 Now there's a thought. I'll be in the US in April ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted January 21, 2014 Share #4200 Posted January 21, 2014 Now there's a thought. I'll be in the US in April ... So will I. Might be in AZ, NM and Utah then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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