biglou Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2361 Posted November 19, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Received the A7r today, battery charging. Well, it is not a Leica but i knew that already. First problem for me i saw is the position of shutter release button, the position of my finger is not " natural " but maybe i will manage when i know the camera better. I already have the adaptors for M and R lenses so very soon i will share what i think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 Hi biglou, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
3D-Kraft.com Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2362 Posted November 19, 2013 First problem for me i saw is the position of shutter release button, the position of my finger is not " natural " but maybe i will manage when i know the camera better. Quite similar to the M... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2363 Posted November 19, 2013 You are right but the hand position is not the same if you hold the front grip, the index has to go more to the back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2364 Posted November 19, 2013 Mr [Andy] Jones,Unless I'm missing something, I must say I've not seen a single image from the A7R with Leica glass that truly impresses me. Most of the corners appear smeared and the overall resolution is not what I would have expected from a 36 megapixel sensor. I've opened the Sony RAW files directly in Photoshop CC as .ARW files using the latest camera raw plug-in (version 8.3). Perhaps the images will render better when suitable camera calibration profiles are available, and I will conduct some tests of my own when I receive the camera in about two weeks' time, but for now I must say I'm rather disappointed and wonder if I didn't make a mistake selling my M9-P (which maybe I should have kept as my backup). Time will tell, perhaps the Zeiss lenses will do a better job on this camera. Again, my sincere thanks for taking the time to post these helpful, high-resolution RAW files. Perhaps you should have a look at the R-lenses. The Leica M cameras are designed for M-lenses. Sony has other ideas. Perhaps R-lenses fit better. Remember, that Leica is happy to sell 600-700 film cameras a year. 600 A7s would be 1.2 Million. For Sony these are peanuts. You are expecting too much from this company for consumer products, I think. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2365 Posted November 19, 2013 Also, there is no coupling from M-lenses to the A7. So you should also compare with M-cameras without the lens recognition. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2366 Posted November 19, 2013 Well I've just cancelled my order. Although it will probably be great with my 28-90 Vario-Elmarit there is too much conflicting information, especially for Leica M-WAs, and I don't have a WATE (yet). No rush for me to get a new camera and it's not as if the Monochrom and M240 give crap results. So I'll let the dust settle and review things in six months or so. Perhaps I'll redirect the funds to a WATE, or better still that nice second-hand M7 that I've been thinking about for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2367 Posted November 19, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well I've just cancelled my order. Although it will probably be great with my 28-90 Vario-Elmarit there is too much conflicting information, especially for Leica M-WAs, and I don't have a WATE (yet). No rush for me to get a new camera and it's not as if the Monochrom and M240 give crap results. So I'll let the dust settle and review things in six months or so. Perhaps I'll redirect the funds to a WATE, or better still that nice second-hand M7 that I've been thinking about for a while. Good strategy... ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2368 Posted November 19, 2013 I've just read Mike Evans' thoughtful article on Macfilos (probably already posted here). Mike hits the nail on the head for me. While I am holding my breath on the performance of the A7R with my Leica glass (the image posted with the 21 Summilux somewhere above is fine for my purposes), this camera is heading in the right direction for me. I do not regret buying either my M9 or Monochrom, but it is not a mistake I will repeat in a hurry. For pros and keen amateurs who take enough photos to get the most out of the camera before the electronics die, I'm sure the M(240) is a great buy. I can't cope with the idea that a beautifully hand-made camera (brass, magnesium, chrome, finished with fine leather etc), with all that heritage is going in the bin when the electronics get superseded. Sorry to say this, but the quality of Leica's electronics (the heart of this camera) warrants little more than a plastic case. When Leica produces a digital camera with electronics to match the beauty of the case (and the rest), and they support it with upgrades (primarily firmware, sensors and electronics), I will come back to the latest manifestation of the digital M. Until that time, I will use my existing M cameras, and that's it. If the Sonys live up to my hopes (dying, I have to concede), I will use them, and upgrade as I go. But this is the end of the road for the M cameras for me. I suspect that I will not be alone in that. I fully accept that Leica glass will always work best with Leica cameras. But that's not really the issue. The question I will be wanting to answer is how well will my Leica glass perform on the A7R, when it arrives. Good enough? That will be fine for me - the main limitation in my photography is not corner sharpness, but the sharpness of the idea behind the image in the centre of the frame. Mark - either get an a la carte MP (the silver chrome with green Napa leather looks fantastic), or get an M3 - I simply love my M3, though I don't use it enough (I have a drawer full of exposed film waiting for me to process and scan it. The viewfinder (optimised for 50mm) is bright and clear, and with no electronics, it represents the purity that made Leica famous. In the hands, it feels just right. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturephoto1 Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2369 Posted November 19, 2013 It seems that many of us in the US may be getting our cameras sooner than expected. Good news for USA: Large Stock A7-A7r and Zeiss 35mm arrived in Stores. Will ship soon. | sonyalpharumors In my case I am waiting for the AC charger, so my order for the A7r will probably be held up a bit longer. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2370 Posted November 19, 2013 You are right but the hand position is not the same if you hold the front grip, the index has to go more to the back. It's the same as a Leica M with grip attached. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2371 Posted November 19, 2013 I've just read Mike Evans' thoughtful article on Macfilos (probably already posted here). Mike hits the nail on the head for me. You mean with "Facts Yet when all this is said, no one knows for sure how M lenses will perform on the Sonys and I am looking forward to seeing the results of some serious testing. " Pretty conclusive then, he doesn't know. I mean for 'f**k's sake I had to read what he said to discover that from your link. An accurate précis would have given anybody the jist of the twaddle and not waste their time. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2372 Posted November 19, 2013 Mike Evans wrote that article almost a month ago if I am not mistaken. I certainly have learned quite a bit since then about the A7R. It seems the WATE will work just fine on it. The A7R costs just a relatively small fraction of the what the WATE is going for. For me that alone would be reason enough to acquire the A7R to use my WATE on 36 MP. In addition the A7R is expected to also work well on some R lenses. So my A7R can't arrive too soon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2373 Posted November 19, 2013 Are there any samples of WATER and A7r? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2374 Posted November 19, 2013 You mean with "Facts Yet when all this is said, no one knows for sure how M lenses will perform on the Sonys and I am looking forward to seeing the results of some serious testing. " Pretty conclusive then, he doesn't know. I mean for 'f**k's sake I had to read what he said to discover that from your link. An accurate précis would have given anybody the jist of the twaddle and not waste their time. Steve Sorry to have wasted your time, Steve ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D-Kraft.com Posted November 20, 2013 Share #2375 Posted November 20, 2013 Are there any samples of WATER and A7r? I posted some with a preproduction model earlier here (see the last 5 pics at the end of the article), but I have seen no other examples so far. I will get my A7R tomorrow so then we will see more "out-of-cam". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 20, 2013 Share #2376 Posted November 20, 2013 The GetDPI Photography Forums - View Single Post - A7 and A7R Shipping from Amazon Japan, $300+ less than US retail, quote: " The Leica WATE seems to work really well. At 16,18 and 21 mm there is NO color smearing in the corners. Corners are sharp by f8. They are good at f5.6. A little soft at f4. Amazing result considering its a 36 meg sensor. Any cast or vigneting can be corrected by software. Hope capture one supports this camera soon for LCC. Link below to my test shots. Focal length and f number can be obtained from file name at top of page a7r-LeicaWATE Neil " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 20, 2013 Share #2377 Posted November 20, 2013 One issue which springs to mind is that lack of edge detail is not just a sensor issue - the MTF charts should provide a graphic illustration of the ability of a lens to transmit detail as you move away from the centre. Untitled.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 20, 2013 Share #2378 Posted November 20, 2013 One issue which springs to mind is that lack of edge detail is not just a sensor issue - the MTF charts should provide a graphic illustration of the ability of a lens to transmit detail as you move away from the centre. John, the type and degree of edge problem we are seeing with image posts, such as Mr. Jones' examples, is not the type illustrated by MTF graphs. It is quite severe smearing as demonstrated in his Sony A7R + 28/2 examples. The same lens shot on the M240 records no noticeable edge smearing. The 28/2 is actually quite sharp on his M240 example. These examples demonstrate that Leica electronics, sensor, optics and applied knowledge in this area is far superior to Sony. Contrary to a few repeatable post here on the forum, Leica electronics is not woefully behind. It is actually on the cutting edge... 43.3mm to be exact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 20, 2013 Share #2379 Posted November 20, 2013 John, the type and degree of edge problem we are seeing with image posts, such as Mr. Jones' examples, is not the type illustrated by MTF graphs. It is quite severe smearing as demonstrated in his Sony A7R + 28/2 examples. The same lens shot on the M240 records no noticeable edge smearing. The 28/2 is actually quite sharp on his M240 example. These examples demonstrate that Leica electronics, sensor, optics and applied knowledge in this area is far superior to Sony. Contrary to a few repeatable post here on the forum, Leica electronics is not woefully behind. It is actually on the cutting edge... 43.3mm to be exact. Good point - I haven't had time to review the raw files posted, and I will do that. Can't agree that CMOSIS developing a sensor (with Leica involvement) which deals well with the short register distance and wide angles puts Leica anywhere near cutting edge. Any company which does not secure supply chain on their LCD, uses less than state of the art EVF with no ability to utilise later technology developments, is still using an old processor, does not provide firmware support for previous versions, can't or won't support defects issues which it knew about from the start (discreet mode) ... need I go on? Cutting edge it isn't. No one has cast any aspersions on CMOSIS for their sensor - Leica's input however is glaring for its lacklustre performance (at the price they charge). Some people say that, anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 20, 2013 Share #2380 Posted November 20, 2013 John, the type and degree of edge problem we are seeing with image posts, such as Mr. Jones' examples, is not the type illustrated by MTF graphs. It is quite severe smearing as demonstrated in his Sony A7R + 28/2 examples. The same lens shot on the M240 records no noticeable edge smearing. The 28/2 is actually quite sharp on his M240 example. These examples demonstrate that Leica electronics, sensor, optics and applied knowledge in this area is far superior to Sony. Contrary to a few repeatable post here on the forum, Leica electronics is not woefully behind. It is actually on the cutting edge... 43.3mm to be exact. Hi Rick, If you replaced Leica electronics with Leica lens specific algorithms that would begin to make more sense frankly IMHO. With regards to electronics and robustness Leica still has some catching up to do. They are not even on par with the rest of their industry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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