jaapv Posted July 28, 2013 Share #41 Posted July 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) actually we don't all know. my own experience with Leica service was pretty poor... I sent an M8 in to have the LCD replaced. I was told it would be free as it was a manufacturing defect. However once it arrived I was told I would have to pay. I paid: the camera was returned with the very same faulty LCD. Leica tried to say it was a new screen that had also failed... It wasn't. It went back to Solms and was returned with new LCD but old cover glass: which I was promised would be replaced as well when I was quoted for the work. Ending up losing close to 1200 dollars. A nightmare. Leica accepted responsibility: but only offered to cover less than half my losses. and while I do understand that dust is a fact of life: I am also aware that there is technology in other cameras that works to reduce it. I think it is a shame Leica has not worked on this area of the camera... dust spotting is a real pain in my arse. There is always a detailed report with the camera of the repairs carried out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 28, 2013 Posted July 28, 2013 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Leica M 240 what is going on. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
anta Posted July 28, 2013 Share #42 Posted July 28, 2013 After a year of spots and a sensor change on then M 9 the camera was finally replaced with a new one.Please understand, in order to have the camera serviced, my closest service station is in Singapore a 2 1/2 hour flight away. I do understand, believe me. And you have all my support. But I just can't believe that Leica or a Leica dealer would EVER give you a new M9 just because yours keeps getting dust on the sensor. No matter where you live in the world. Actually, JUST because you live far away from service and dealers, anyone would tell you that you've got to learn to (keep) clean your sensor. I had my M9 in the VERY dusty mountains of Afghanistan, and I don't think they'd have given me a new one when I came back with a ton of dust in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadeyev Posted July 28, 2013 Share #43 Posted July 28, 2013 Heinz, Not only the sensor but also the surroundings of the sensor. I had some issues with the M9 also, but after a clean at Chipclean all my issues were gone. Last time it was cleaned is now a year ago and about 10.000 clicks later. I still change my lenses, but carefully. In my opinion it's better en more productive to sent Chipclean a mail and negotiate the sending, than Herr Kaufmann. [/url] Exactly !!! Buy your Lamborghini and then bring to a real expert to get it working properly. Completely normal. That "but also the surroundings of the sensor" is telling, and Balisfoods also mentioned black gook in later additions to his post. Keep on repeating "It's normal, it's normal, it's normal" a few more thousand times and maybe we can all be hypnotised, as obviously a number of people here are already. Tadeyev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 28, 2013 Share #44 Posted July 28, 2013 ...Buy your Lamborghini and then bring to a real expert to get it working properly... Ha ha! Better doing so with a Lambo or better still appoint an F1 engineer to live in your garage for sake of reassurance. Star's whim if you ask me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted July 28, 2013 Share #45 Posted July 28, 2013 There is always a detailed report with the camera of the repairs carried out. sorry- I am not trying to be contrary- but my experience disagrees: when my M8 was returned there was no mention of any work done on the LCD- despite the fact that that was the sole reason it was sent to Solms and despite the fact Solms claimed the work had been done when it had not. There was mention of a general check, sensor clean, new front plate... but no mention of the LCD. Even after it was sent back and actually repaired there was no report issued. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadeyev Posted July 28, 2013 Share #46 Posted July 28, 2013 The sensor is clean when it leaves the factory. It collects dust when the new owner plonks a lens with a dirty rear end on it. Preferably with the lens mouth facing upwards in a dusty room. Then he takes some images, As the shutter is a simple mechanical thing it may deposit some minuscule manufacturing rests on the sensor. So he will have to clean it. Which appears to be less easy than complaining. Of course Jaap. That is why there are a number of posters here on the forum and other forums who tell us the exact opposite: Sensor dirty out of the sealed box; back from the factory after service dirtier than it left; you do read the threads here don't you? There seems to be a problem with gunk in the camera itself that adds to the issues. Your moderator status makes no impression on me, especially when you repeat over and over that 'people need to clean their cars' (that's how stupid they are in your eyes for not agreeing with you). I tend to believe that sane people reporting problems are not all idiots, and your constant trivialising of the issue will not make it go away. Tadeyev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadeyev Posted July 28, 2013 Share #47 Posted July 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) sorry- I am not trying to be contrary- but my experience disagrees: when my M8 was returned there was no mention of any work done on the LCD- despite the fact that that was the sole reason it was sent to Solms and despite the fact Solms claimed the work had been done when it had not. There was mention of a general check, sensor clean, new front plate... but no mention of the LCD. Even after it was sent back and actually repaired there was no report issued. Jacques, why should you have to be apologetic about your experiences? Here again, Jaap, who did not even know WHAT you received back form Leica concerning paperwork, figured he could shut you up by kowtowing the line "Leica always gives full reports with their repairs". Well they don't, as many here already know. Don't expect any real discussion here about such topics, and don't be apologetic about your experiences just because a Leica jobbo wants to make you feel stupid or guilty for your own experiences that don't follw the PR objectives of this site. Tadeyev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted July 28, 2013 Share #48 Posted July 28, 2013 leaving aside all the rights and wrongs of whether and how the dust got there etc, It would appear that the OP has 2 problems 1. he lives a long way from any leica or Photo dealer who can clean the sensor for him 2. He is obviously reluctant to do it himself. So I think he will always have problems with any form of interchangeable lens camera and any camera that doesn't have a good built in cleaning system. So maybe he should consider a leica X vario (no lens to change) or maybe the fuji x system. I can understand peoples reluctance to clean the sensor and it is not my favourite job especially after early experiences with the M9 and blobs of oil. A steady hand is needed and a degree of confidence but with time and the right tools it is not so hard. I remember when I had the D700 go to a Nikon UK pro day where they cleaned the sensor for free. the guy was very nonchalant about it just using a bit of lint-free wipe wrapped around a wooden spatula and some cleaning fluid!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted July 28, 2013 Share #49 Posted July 28, 2013 There is always a detailed report with the camera of the repairs carried out. I'm afraid that this is certainly not my experience after work has been done. Sometimes yes and sometimes no but then I have had real problems last year with leica communications especially in the late summer during holiday times Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted July 28, 2013 Share #50 Posted July 28, 2013 I have only had very abbreviated (I use the word generously) repair reports back from Leica that have told me little about what was found and even less about what was done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted July 28, 2013 Share #51 Posted July 28, 2013 maybe take it to a good camera shop near you & ask their advice. They may even clean it for you but if not & you're not able to yourself, Schmidt Marketing can clean it for you. It doesn't need to go back to Germany. I know you feel upset but sounds like the picture quality far outweighs any inconvenience once it's cleaned. Most here agree that cameras often arrive with dusty sensors. It must have settled during shipping. Chin up.! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted July 28, 2013 Share #52 Posted July 28, 2013 Exactly !!!Buy your Lamborghini and then bring to a real expert to get it working properly. Completely normal. That "but also the surroundings of the sensor" is telling, and Balisfoods also mentioned black gook in later additions to his post. Keep on repeating "It's normal, it's normal, it's normal" a few more thousand times and maybe we can all be hypnotised, as obviously a number of people here are already. Tadeyev I also let my Nikon D3 clean at Chipclean. I am not ashamed of the fact, that a pro can do a better job than I can. In circumstances , sterile environment etc. with better tools and liquids. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted July 28, 2013 Share #53 Posted July 28, 2013 The thing I'd be most concerned about when shipping such gear around internationally is that you might get back a clean sensor, but a misaligned rangefinder due to all the bumps and drops in transit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted July 28, 2013 Share #54 Posted July 28, 2013 Exactly !!!Buy your Lamborghini and then bring to a real expert to get it working properly. Completely normal. I'm sorry but do you really wash your own Lamborghini? If you have the money to buy such an expensive car, you can easily afford to let it wash by somebody else. We only have a 33 year old rusty Volvo, but we always take it away to Rudy , our carwash. He washes it, waxes it everytime and he's a nice chap to talk with. You CAN wash your own vehicle of course, but there are people who do this thing for a living and doing a great job and I gladly pay them for it . That "but also the surroundings of the sensor" is telling, and Balisfoods also mentioned black gook in later additions to his post. Of course it's logical to clean the whole interior of the camera together with the sensor. Everything which falls of from my Nikon and or Leica during a motordrive burst, can easily give dust and orther particles. You can compare it with washing the windows of your car while your hood is full of debree. It will come on your windshield eventually. Keep on repeating "It's normal, it's normal, it's normal" a few more thousand times and maybe we can all be hypnotised, as obviously a number of people here are already. Tadeyev IMHO i don't' think I'm hypnotised ( but you never know when you are.. ) . IMHO Leica AG is not the world best sensor cleaner. I've heard stories enough. But that is not really the issue. The issue IMO is, that once it is properly cleaned, it will get dirty again. All cameras do. Even my MP gets dirty. The only thing is. With my MP I replace my sensor every 36 shots. Not 200 but every 36!!!. If Bali is really at the end of the World. Than act like it. Be selfsupportive or buy film rolls, or wait. or buy Capture One 6 or 7. They have a device to develope your raw files leaving away the spots of dirt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted July 28, 2013 Share #55 Posted July 28, 2013 The thing I'd be most concerned about when shipping such gear around internationally is that you might get back a clean sensor, but a misaligned rangefinder due to all the bumps and drops in transit. When properly packed, that won't be a problem. Leica once has become famous for being a rather sturdy camera. A little bump won't kill the rangefinder. I sent my cameras 15 times around already I think. No problems here. When you don't have the original boxes a boxed pellicase 1400 will do very nicely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Soldati Posted July 28, 2013 Share #56 Posted July 28, 2013 Maybe jaapv can help to clarify my understanding. For what I understand, one of the sensor cleaning technology is a front glass that is "moved" by ultrasonic impulsion that remove the dust on it. Then the dust is stuck on a sticky material. Leica has chosen to develop their digital camera in order to use older argentic (film) lenses. As I understand, this require a specific sensor design and a very thin cover glass (0.8mm only). I assume this is one reason why Leica do not use the same technology to clean the sensor. They had to chose between a camera that can be used with their historical glasses (with the down side to have the sensor manually cleaned) or use the same technology as other manufacturers ( with the downside to be only used with new, purposely design lenses). It is just an hypothesis. Looking forward to have answer from experts. Nicolas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 28, 2013 Share #57 Posted July 28, 2013 That is completely correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 28, 2013 Share #58 Posted July 28, 2013 Jacques, why should you have to be apologetic about your experiences?Here again, Jaap, who did not even know WHAT you received back form Leica concerning paperwork, figured he could shut you up by kowtowing the line "Leica always gives full reports with their repairs". Well they don't, as many here already know. Don't expect any real discussion here about such topics, and don't be apologetic about your experiences just because a Leica jobbo wants to make you feel stupid or guilty for your own experiences that don't follw the PR objectives of this site. Tadeyev Let me google that for you Let me google that for you Let me google that for you etc... Your outrage is rather selective.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Soldati Posted July 28, 2013 Share #59 Posted July 28, 2013 That is completely correct. Thank you for your answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 28, 2013 Share #60 Posted July 28, 2013 When I first got an M8, I was not comfortable about the whole process of wet cleaning a sensor. The CameraClean company in the UK was running short seminars at the Focus on Imaging show on cleaning sensors plus the various tools, fluids and methods. I found this was a very useful course (it lasted about 75 minutes) with hands on instruction using your own camera. I am sure there are professional photographers in every local who would be happy to do a short 1 to 1 course. I think most professional photographers are grateful for any income they can get nowadays. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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