jaapv Posted June 25, 2013 Share #2241 Posted June 25, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Digilux 3 has an optical view finder.A fairly cramped and dim one, however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 25, 2013 Share #2242 Posted June 25, 2013 Just bought a secondhand (Ebay) Olympus VF-2 finder and it works a treat on my X Vario. The Olympus VF-2 on the X Vario gives a clearer image than the Panasonic DMW-LV1 finder used on my D-Lux 5 ... and also has non-click stopped diopter adjustment which enables more precise adjustment to my eye. The material and manufacturing 'input' required to produce these finders must be relatively little compared to that required to produce e.g. a budget or medium priced digital compact camera. I'd like to know the actual manufacturing costs of the few accessory EVFs available ... even allowing for advertising and marketing I doubt if they would cost more than a few $$ to make. I was not prepared to spend £360 on a new Leica EVF2 - especially when the Olympus version appears to have identical internals and offers identical performance. The other accessories needed are a (1) Vikuiti stick on screen protector (none available for the X Vario yet but have been advised that they will be available soon) and (2) lens hood (at Leica Camera's usual pace ) BTW ... contrary to some forum posts the Leica X Vario is pocketable; it fits into my multi-pocket 'COUNTRY INNOVATION' lightweight jacket i.e. in either of the large pockets ... and it fits into several of a friend's waxed jackets and car coats ... we tried them yesterday. I'll be looking at the outdoor leisure wear on offer at Birdfair 2013 to try and find a heavier weight large pocket jacket for use in colder weather ie capable of pocketing the Vario X. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted June 25, 2013 Share #2243 Posted June 25, 2013 BTW ... contrary to some forum posts the Leica X Vario is pocketable; it fits into my multi-pocket 'COUNTRY INNOVATION' lightweight jacket ie in either of the large pockets ... and it fits into several of a friend's waxed jackets and car coats ... we tried them yesterday. I guess it all depends upon your definition of what constitutes a "pocket". You can fit a small dog in some Barbour jacket pockets. I could get my usual M camera and 35mm lens into some of my jacket pockets but I wouldn't want to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 25, 2013 Share #2244 Posted June 25, 2013 I agree with Dunk. The price difference between the Olympus VF-2 finder and the Leica EVF-2 is far too much for a bit of paint. By being so greedy, I suspect Leica are doing themselves out of sales. A 10% price difference might make people think: "Maybe to have a matching VF" but £189 (at Park Cameras) for the Oly against £369 for the Leica one with few discounts available? Like many, I voted with my wallet and bought the Olympus one. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter L Posted June 25, 2013 Share #2245 Posted June 25, 2013 I too bought the Olympus EVF, Olympus is wringing their hands with glee, Leica bumping up their sales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenMathes Posted June 25, 2013 Share #2246 Posted June 25, 2013 Thanks for that- I've often wondered why all the anger and one-upsmanship- seems odd- this should be the cheering section for Leica! I am a basic Leica user who's loved my R6, a couple of M 6's and now adore my M9- had to send it to NJ once, maybe twice- once for cleaning- both times got it back in plenty of time for my next assignment overseas- great service, love the stuff- and in 25 years with Leica- I've had to send stuff back twice- thats it!! Feel blessed to get to own,use the best of the best!! Every now and then I've wandered back to DSLR 5DM2 etc- love them too- but just so big and heavy- Leica fits. Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted June 25, 2013 Share #2247 Posted June 25, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) A fairly cramped and dim one, however. True. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 25, 2013 Share #2248 Posted June 25, 2013 Leica probably has to pay a premium price for their accessory EVFs compared to the price paid by Far East camera manufacturers because they (Leica) probably only order a few thousand at a time rather than the tens of thousands ordered by e.g. Olympus. Supposing there is a 20% to 30% price differential at the manufacturing stage - this will be maintained through the chain and it may even increase if Leica work on higher margins for accessories than do Olympus and Panasonic. Thus we should not be surprised if our Leica branded accessories cost significantly more than other camera manufacturers' equivalent products ... and as long as some Leica customers are prepared to pay the accessories' premium prices then Leica will continue to buy-in at high prices. Leica are probably not profiteering when they sell and meet demand for accessories - it just appears that way because of the lower numbers and higher costs involved. Those higher costs include packaging/carton costs. Some packaging companies would not even consider supplying companies such as Leica with printed cartons because the volumes are just not economic - some packaging companies only deal in tens or hundreds of thousands of cartons. Thus Leica probably has to find a 'little man' carton manufacturer - which may account for the better quality cartons e.g. the mini chest of drawers The Far East camera manufacturers benefit from the 'economies of scale' available to them ... economies which are never available (to the same degree) to Leica. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 25, 2013 Share #2249 Posted June 25, 2013 I too bought the Olympus EVF, Olympus is wringing their hands with glee, Leica bumping up their sales.I doubrt that those few hundred EVFs for Leicas make much of a difference in Olympus' sales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miatadan Posted June 25, 2013 Share #2250 Posted June 25, 2013 Just bought a secondhand (Ebay) Olympus VF-2 finder and it works a treat on my X Vario. The Olympus VF-2 on the X Vario gives a clearer image than the Panasonic DMW-LV1 finder used on my D-Lux 5 ... and also has non-click stopped diopter adjustment which enables more precise adjustment to my eye. The material and manufacturing 'input' required to produce these finders must be relatively little compared to that required to produce e.g. a budget or medium priced digital compact camera. I'd like to know the actual manufacturing costs of the few accessory EVFs available ... even allowing for advertising and marketing I doubt if they would cost more than a few $$ to make. I was not prepared to spend £360 on a new Leica EVF2 - especially when the Olympus version appears to have identical internals and offers identical performance. The other accessories needed are a (1) Vikuiti stick on screen protector (none available for the X Vario yet but have been advised that they will be available soon) and (2) lens hood (at Leica Camera's usual pace ) BTW ... contrary to some forum posts the Leica X Vario is pocketable; it fits into my multi-pocket 'COUNTRY INNOVATION' lightweight jacket i.e. in either of the large pockets ... and it fits into several of a friend's waxed jackets and car coats ... we tried them yesterday. I'll be looking at the outdoor leisure wear on offer at Birdfair 2013 to try and find a heavier weight large pocket jacket for use in colder weather ie capable of pocketing the Vario X. dunk Dunk checked out 'Country Innovation' and looked at the jackets and not sure what is considered lightest jacket in the line up? traveler, venture ? as I want superlight weight and breathable as not to be overly hot wearing it in summer and also place for apple mini ipad Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 25, 2013 Share #2251 Posted June 25, 2013 I'd like to know the actual manufacturing costs of the few accessory EVFs available ... even allowing for advertising and marketing I doubt if they would cost more than a few $$ to make. For $80 GoPro sells a small clip on LCD back that also has a speaker in it and an on off switch. A clip on EVF just uses a smaller (but perhaps more expensive) LCD or OLED and a magnifying lens. While you are at it, consider why clip on optical viewfinders are so expensive. Back in the days when accessory lenses for cheap fixed rangefinders were common, these viewfinders were a dime a dozen. It surprises me there are no generic EVFs from China yet. Below is an example of two optical right angle finders. Other than the cost of the viewfinder panel I would think a clip on EVF would be a lot easier to make than this. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205247-mini-m-merged-aka-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2358367'>More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 25, 2013 Share #2252 Posted June 25, 2013 Dunk checked out 'Country Innovation' and looked at the jackets and not sure what is considered lightest jacket in the line up? traveler, venture ? as I want superlight weight and breathable as not to be overly hot wearing it in summer and also place for apple mini ipad Dan We're getting a bit off topic here but mine must be the 'VENTURE' jacket as listed in 'Sale' Clearance - last chance to purchase our gear! - Country Innovation I paid £60 for mine at Birdfair 2012. My iPad Mini fits a treat into the jacket's large side front pocket - the pocket is 21cm wide and 22cm deep. My jacket does not have a 'type name' ... it's a very lightweight , washable, breathable, thin & unstructured (no shoulder padding or thick lining) jacket. A bit like a multi pocket waistcoat but with long sleeves. I also bought one of their waistcoats which has slightly smaller front side pockets. The Country Innovation multi pocket waistcoats and jackets are much better quality than the similar items sold in most outdoor leisure centres and in town markets. However, the iPad Mini only just fits into the waistcoat pocket. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 27, 2013 Share #2253 Posted June 27, 2013 Just out today at £675. Ouch. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205247-mini-m-merged-aka-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2360088'>More sharing options...
lct Posted June 27, 2013 Share #2254 Posted June 27, 2013 The viewfinder is the cheapest part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 27, 2013 Share #2255 Posted June 27, 2013 Oh. It has interchangable lenses also.... Bet there's some pissed people at Leica today. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205247-mini-m-merged-aka-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2360093'>More sharing options...
lct Posted June 27, 2013 Share #2256 Posted June 27, 2013 Must be pissed chimps then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 27, 2013 Share #2257 Posted June 27, 2013 Oh. It has interchangable lenses also.... Bet there's some pissed people at Leica today. Masses of motorists buy Ford ... but the more discerning prefer and enjoy e.g. Morgan, Caterham and other more charismatic cars with better tuned engines. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 27, 2013 Share #2258 Posted June 27, 2013 Well that does extend to cars that are more fun and have higher performance like a Caterham. But a camera that is more than 200% cheaper and has more functions, including the ones that people have been disappointed by like interchangeable lenses and probably just as good performance is a little different, no? no red dot though I suppose Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 27, 2013 Share #2259 Posted June 27, 2013 Well that does extend to cars that are more fun and have higher performance like a Caterham. But a camera that is more than 200% cheaper and has more functions, including the ones that people have been disappointed by like interchangeable lenses and probably just as good performance is a little different, no? no red dot though I suppose Depends on which performance parameters you have in mind. Leica appear to tune other manufacturers' sensors far better than their competitors. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onceuponatime Posted June 27, 2013 Share #2260 Posted June 27, 2013 On the built in EVF: Leica may well have benn planning XVario over a year, inorder to have it shelves now. There's no way the latest and best current EVF could have been incporporated in time. Thus Panasonic G5 EVF may have been a consideration to be built in "1,440,000-dot equivalent EVF (which Panasonic calls the LVF for Live View Finder), which delivers a smooth image, completely devoid of the grid effect so common with LCDs, with high refresh rate to minimize color breakup issues. 100% coverage, 0.7x magnification, " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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