Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario

[jgmb]

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I think they should broaden it a bit and make another one 24 or even 21 . That might lead to an 85 version later, unless they are going to make an interchangeable one , which may be slightly bigger, but I wouldn't rule out .

 

Yeah, I am a wide angle guy too. If the RX1 came with a fixed Zeiss 24mm, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. In fact, I'd even consider a Leica X if it came with a fixed 24 Elmarit. An X with a 21mm Elmar and 16:9 sensor would fulfill my dream of a digital X-Pan.

 

If interchangeable AF lenses for the X is not in the cards, rather than squeezing a slow zoom to fit a compact body, perhaps Leica should follow the lead of the Sigma DP Merrills and make three or four versions of the X2, each with a fixed fast prime: in addition to the 35, add a 24, a 50 and a 85 FOV. Optimize each lens for the sensor, keep it light and compact. Name the cameras accordingly: X24, X35, X50 and X85. A higher resolution 24MP APS sensor from CMOSIS would be ideal.

 

Not as practical as interchangeable lenses, but they'd sure be the ultimate "niche cameras".

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Is that a new kind of distortion - the bottle distortion, after the cushion and the barrel distortions?

[wlaidlaw]

Below shows the size of an f3.3 to f4.0 28-85 Zeiss zoom lens on an FF sensor - the total weight is over 3 kg. Get real guys, an F2 Zoom lens for an FF body would be the size of a 4 litre party can of beer. If you want the F2/FF/Zoom spec you better book into weight lifting classes now and arrange a second mortgage to pay for the camera. A Mini-M it would not be.

 

Wilson

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[lct]

Specs are published here Leica X Vario Type 107 detailed specifications | Leica News & Rumors

Thank you so with 133 x 73 x 95mm the "Mini" would be smaller than both Digilux 2 (135 x 82 x 103mm) and Digilux 3 (146 x 77 x 87mm).

[rramesh]

If the rumours that stock of this camera will be available at the get-go, people waiting for an M Typ 240 will feel rightly aggrieved that Leica devotes resources to getting this new camera off the ground while failing to even scratch the surface of demand for the M.

 

Makes you wonder why. Maybe Leica has subcontracted out manufacture to Panasonic who can make 1000 cameras a week blindfolded. Maybe there are component supplies restricting M volumes. Maybe the M build is still far too labour intensive, some of which could have been engineered out.

 

As this new camera appears to be nothing more than an X2 with a zoom lens and not remotely related to the M other than through some marketeer's over-excited imagination, there is little of interest for me here.

Actually if you can remove mechanical components, like the rangefinder, that require adjustments, manufacturing is a lot simpler.

[Lee Martin]

Yeah, I am a wide angle guy too. If the RX1 came with a fixed Zeiss 24mm, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. In fact, I'd even consider a Leica X if it came with a fixed 24 Elmarit. An X with a 21mm Elmar and 16:9 sensor would fulfill my dream of a digital X-Pan.

 

If interchangeable AF lenses for the X is not in the cards, rather than squeezing a slow zoom to fit a compact body, perhaps Leica should follow the lead of the Sigma DP Merrills and make three or four versions of the X2, each with a fixed fast prime: in addition to the 35, add a 24, a 50 and a 85 FOV. Optimize each lens for the sensor, keep it light and compact. Name the cameras accordingly: X24, X35, X50 and X85. A higher resolution 24MP APS sensor from CMOSIS would be ideal.

 

Not as practical as interchangeable lenses, but they'd sure be the ultimate "niche cameras".

 

I think it would be reasonable to offer different options of the RX1 as you suggest, and most people will manage quite happily perhaps with 2 focal lengths . The completed unit would still be far cheaper than the Leica equivalent lens. As has been pointed out though, if the unit fails, it's game over, rather than just substituting the still working lens onto a replacement body. I still want it to be a Mini Monochrom with prime 35 ! I know it's not , because the accountants want high volume sales it will have to be a jack of all trades, with the associated compromises.

[rramesh]

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The only hope now is if my miracle a lens release button shows up on the real Mini M. Maybe all these pictures being released are of mock up cameras without this button. This can be the only reason for the peak show we are seeing.

[Paul J]

Have you used an X1 or X2 yourself? Or is your humble opinion based on internet speak? And I did not state that the X1 is superior to the M9 - but did say the files my colleague produced were superior to those he produced from an M9 - specifically as regards blown highlights when using the M9. I also have an X1 - and have won awards with its images.

 

dunk

 

Firstly, cameras don't win awards.

 

Secondly, my X1 is very good, in fact for it's size it's outstanding but it is not as good as my my M9 in almost every way except for moire and occasionally, rarely, posterisation. M9 is harder to use but it rewards proper technique and exposure.

[Guest SUMOLUX]

The only hope now is if my miracle a lens release button shows up on the real Mini M. Maybe all these pictures being released are of mock up cameras without this button. This can be the only reason for the peak show we are seeing.

 

One can only hope ;-0)

Otherwise it is going to be a Fuji for me I'm afraid.

[AlanJW]

Firstly, cameras don't win awards.

 

Secondly, my X1 is very good, in fact for it's size it's outstanding but it is not as good as my my M9 in almost every way except for moire and occasionally, rarely, posterisation. M9 is harder to use but it rewards proper technique and exposure.

 

My X1 was very good too, but I did not keep it. I also did not keep a Nex7, but I have some regrets about that given that it could use M lenses. If this "Mini M" had an M mount, I would buy it as a backup for M(240)

 

If I want to go smaller, I want something like the Sony RX100, which is truly pocketable.

 

There are new Sony Nex's in the works, rumored to have FF, and a Fuji XPro2 too, so waiting may be a good strategy unless you absolutely need something now. The pace of innovation, driven by competition, is very good for consumers.

[kdriceman]

I have a feeling that while this camera won't be something many of us who shoot M's (the rangefinder version of the M moniker), Leica has done their market research. Could it be that in some places, like Asia, a Leica branded APS-C with a zoom lens will sell very well? It won't be for me, but I suspect in some markets people want such a camera with a Leica badge on it.

[douglasf13]

Almost an inch longer is not just a little larger.

 

The body of the X Vario is only about .35 inches wider and .16 inches taller than the X2. It's the long zoom lens that's an inch longer than the lens protrusion of X2, because lens length is factored into the overall dimensions of fixed lens cameras. That jives with the pics on the Leica site, assuming they're close to scale.

[TW528]

Thank you so with 133 x 73 x 95mm the "Mini" would be smaller than both Digilux 2 (135 x 82 x 103mm) and Digilux 3 (146 x 77 x 87mm).

 

Fuji X-E1 dimensions 129 x 75 x 38 mm (5.08 x 2.95 x 1.5″) which has an EVF and takes interchangeable lenses. Makes you wonder why the Vario X body is so big.

[lct]

Fuji X-E1 dimensions 129 x 75 x 38 mm...

Not too bad w/o a lens but with its zoom on you might wish to add 70mm in depth. No free lunch as usual.

[TW528]

Not too bad w/o a lens but with its zoom on you might wish to add 70mm in depth. No free lunch as usual.

 

Which makes it about 5mm deeper but you get a f2.8 - 4 lens. It eats the Vario X for lunch.

[lct]

I was just responding to your comparo of a camera with lens to a body alone. Both are too deep for my taste anyway. I did not buy the Digilux 2 for this very reason.

[ynp]

Below shows the size of an f3.3 to f4.0 28-85 Zeiss zoom lens on an FF sensor - the total weight is over 3 kg. Get real guys, an F2 Zoom lens for an FF body would be the size of a 4 litre party can of beer. If you want the F2/FF/Zoom spec you better book into weight lifting classes now and arrange a second mortgage to pay for the camera. A Mini-M it would not be.

 

Wilson

Thank you for the illustration.

It is easier to carry two M-bodies with fast lenses than one with a fast zoom.

[wlaidlaw]

Thank you for the illustration.

It is easier to carry two M-bodies with fast lenses than one with a fast zoom.

 

I have been shooting from a wheel chair today, which I will be using for the next two weeks and I have to say the Zeiss zoom was near perfect. In that it is sitting in my lap when not in use, the weight is much less noticeable that when I am carrying it round my neck. Here is a pic taken today with the 240 and the Zeiss Vario Sonnar of my grandson in his new garden house/climbing frame, we have spent all day assembling. Developed in C1 V 7.1.2 with my tweaked 240 ICC profile.

 

Wilson

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[TW528]

I was just responding to your comparo of a camera with lens to a body alone. Both are too deep for my taste anyway. I did not buy the Digilux 2 for this very reason.

 

I didn't mention the depth because you can use any number of lenses long or short on the Fuji and wanted to show how Fuji managed to include a built-in EVF on a body roughly the same size. The Fuji 18-55 (28-90) f2.8 - 4 zoom lens shows Leica didn't need to use such a slow lens and that it wouldn't have had to be the size of a can of Fosters to be reasonable fast. f2 is another matter obviously. I'm sure the Leica lens is a tiny bit smaller but is that a trade-off anyone wants?

 

I actually find the Digilux 2 the perfect size and hoped they could at least make a m43 version of it given advances in miniaturization, microlenses, etc. since then. It sounds like Panasonic will be doing that with the GX2 or whatever it's called. I actually find the Sony RX-1 too small to hold comfortably. It will be interesting to see size comparisons once the camera is released.

[TW528]

The rumors a few months ago suggested that the FF Sony NEX would be their top camera (above the Alpha) and priced around $3500+ without lens. Perhaps that means it's going to be more like a larger RX-1 with built-in EVF than a super sized NEX-7.