digitalpowershot Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1181 Posted June 5, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Because Sony has FF in a small body, that's why. And FF has its well known benefits. Why go back to a crop sensor?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 Hi digitalpowershot, Take a look here Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1182 Posted June 5, 2013 Looking at the Facebook page (to see if there could be a mount in there somewhere), I'm struck by the progression: Nano - DLux Micro - X2 Mini - ? Leica M If this is a size progression (and they do refer to a larger sensor), why in the world would the Mini be the same size as the X2? I'm getting a bit more optimistic ... I agree... why WRITING "larger than usual", to end up with an APS-C sensor ? It would be a stupid statement... apart the P&S Panas, they don't make smaller than APS-C cameras; after wandering in disparate directions... ... today I'd bet for APS-H fixed zoom embedded EVF... ready to change my mind in the next 8 hours... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1183 Posted June 5, 2013 They mean larger (sensor) than most other P&S compact digicams, which the X2 is & so will be the new camera. Don't read too much into a bit of marketing blurb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TW528 Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1184 Posted June 5, 2013 LEICA Marketing If the leaked photo is true and I believe it is then the 18-46 actual focal length written on the front of the lens corresponds to the 28-70 effective focal length written on the lens barrel. In other words the typical 1.5x crop of an APS-C sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1185 Posted June 5, 2013 Yes APS-C most probably. No reason to think that the damp squib will be drier than it looks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1186 Posted June 5, 2013 Yes APS-C most probably. No reason to think that the damp squib will be drier than it looks. OK... good straight argument for a betting : "some more than APS-C" is mine... and happens that just 1 month after (July 11) I am in Paris for a pair of days... lct, I'm ready to PAY any decently priced beverage you choose,,, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1187 Posted June 5, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes APS-C most probably. No reason to think that the damp squib will be drier than it looks. The sensor is almost certainly made by CMOSIS who already make the M240 FF sensor. Leica is a relatively small volume camera manufacturer and a new APS-? CMOS sensor would also have to be low volume. Makes more sense to use the existing M240 FF CMOS sensor in the MINI. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Flores Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1188 Posted June 5, 2013 The sensor is almost certainly made by CMOSIS who already make the M240 FF sensor. Leica is a relatively small volume camera manufacturer and a new APS-? CMOS sensor would also have to be low volume. Makes more sense to use the existing M240 FF CMOS sensor in the MINI. dunk I hope so. But then, the question is "fixed"... or takes M lenses... or uses a new line of AF lenses that [i hope] Leica will also be launching Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1189 Posted June 5, 2013 OK... good straight argument for a betting : "some more than APS-C" is mine... and happens that just 1 month after (July 11) I am in Paris for a pair of days... lct, I'm ready to PAY any decently priced beverage you choose,,, I won't be in Paris in July but you can send me a bottle of Chianti by the post service my friend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1190 Posted June 5, 2013 The sensor is almost certainly made by CMOSIS who already make the M240 FF sensor. Leica is a relatively small volume camera manufacturer and a new APS-? CMOS sensor would also have to be low volume. Makes more sense to use the existing M240 FF CMOS sensor in the MINI... You will see a FF sensor in anything else than the M or a most hypothetical reborn R body when pigs can fly i'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alandash Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1191 Posted June 5, 2013 … but as the “M” in “Leica M” stands for “Messsucher” (Rangefinder), removing the rangefinder would be sort of … well. Weird? Hrm. Speaking of "M", why not just rename it "Meica"? My guess is that the Mini-Meica images will instantly go to the Cloud server storage in Solms, so a memory card will not be necessary. Apple will allow you to download the images to your iPad via "iPhotos" for a slight fee plus import duties and VAT taxes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1192 Posted June 5, 2013 You will see a FF sensor in anything else than the M or a most hypothetical reborn R body when pigs can fly i'm afraid. Why? Reborn R is probably the least likely of any option. Why would Leica make a camera for lenses it doesn't make any more? CMOSIS already makes a full frame sensor. Anything which increases volume of that product reduces cost and increases profit (potentially) for both companies. Leica and Sony are the only companies making a small full frame camera, and Leica already makes the lenses for such a system, which Sony does not. The M(240) camera is never going to be a volume seller - it's too expensive, and who in the 1% mass market wants a weird, old fashioned rangefinder focussing system? There's demand for full frame (the success of the RX-1 is proof of that), and Leica already has the products - lenses and access to sensors. It makes perfect sense. A zoom X2 makes none, for the same reasons - a crowded market (crappy compacts using APS-C sensors) based on a camera that is dead in the water, using a Sony sensor and a slow lens. My iPhone would be a better choice for that market. If the pictures are not faked, I think this camera will sink like a stone, following or dragging the X2 with it (take your pick - neither is a trend setter, and both will have an unjustified Leica premium) and no market space. We'll see an Apple version, just before it's discontinued ... Cheers John Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1193 Posted June 5, 2013 This won't happen because Leica have no reason to cannibalize the M in any way. IMHO of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1194 Posted June 5, 2013 This won't happen because Leica have no reason to cannibalize the M in any way. IMHO of course. It is not about cannibalization. Leica M cameras today appeal to a limited market of rangefinder users who desire digital. While the cameras are fantastic not everyone wants a rangefinder. Many users are happy using Leica lenses on crop sensor cameras. Imagine the possibilities if M lenses could be used on other Leica bodies, whether full frame or smaller. It will certainly help Leica increase user base and bring in more revenues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1195 Posted June 5, 2013 This won't happen because Leica have no reason to cannibalize the M in any way. IMHO of course. But they already have with the ME dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1196 Posted June 5, 2013 This won't happen because Leica have no reason to cannibalize the M in any way. IMHO of course. A slightly cheaper M without an RF (this is Leica, so the price difference will be marginal) might "cannibalise" some M 240 sales but it would also likely increase sales of the M platform more generally. This would help sell M lenses (which seems to be a relatively soft market when compared with 2011). That said, I think the cat is out of the bag as far as this announcement goes and the non-M system X Vario is the "Mini M". The RF-less M is probably for another time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1197 Posted June 5, 2013 I think the cannibalisation argument has no merit. For a number of reasons too boring to relate yet again in a thread that has already put almost every imaginable point of view many times over. :cool: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1198 Posted June 5, 2013 It is not about cannibalization.Leica M cameras today appeal to a limited market of rangefinder users who desire digital. While the cameras are fantastic not everyone wants a rangefinder. Many users are happy using Leica lenses on crop sensor cameras. Imagine the possibilities if M lenses could be used on other Leica bodies, whether full frame or smaller. It will certainly help Leica increase user base and bring in more revenues. It is indeed about cannibalization but there are excellent reasons for crop sensors of course. I've been the first 'official' purchaser of the R-D1 in Europe 8+ years ago and i still find APS-C very handy with my Nikons. I like much my APS-H M8.2 as well. So i think the X107 aka "mini" will be a very good APS-C camera. Problem is it is difficult to stuff a fast zoom in a small package but all in all it should have a shallower DoF than the beloved Digilux 2 so photogs interested in fixed zooms cameras should not be put off IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1199 Posted June 5, 2013 I am unsure on this one. One one hand I doubt we will see a Full Frame sensor in anything but an M or a variation of the M perhaps like the one speculated on earlier - an M without the Rangefinder, cut down in size. I don't think the X and M will ever be too similar. On the other hand with the RX1 around I wonder if the days of APS sized sensors are numbered. Why would you have an APS sensor if you can have a full frame in the same sized package? Lens size is the only thing I can think of. THe popularity of the rx1 I thikn is a hint of the future there. This current campaign certainly looks geared at differentiating size difference rather than feature set. M, Mini M, Micro, Nano etc.... If we do see a full framed X I bet it will fixed lens, limiting in some way or another. For the same reasons I don't think the M will ever have as high a Megapixel count than the S. Obviously, I would love to be wrong here. I would love an X sized camera with a full frame and interchangable lenses but I bet we won't see it unless the M trims down in size. I would love to see a high Megapixel M but I'm not sure that's going to happen until, if ever, the S grows in size. Leica have always said they are about file quality rather than Megapixels.... The M ticks all the boxes. It already is a FF EVIL and a OVFIL. If they can get back down to the size of an early film M then even better. I bet it will go that way. It's fun to speculate and guess but obviously none of us will ever know till the dopey teasers have finished. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1200 Posted June 5, 2013 Why would you have an APS sensor if you can have a full frame in the same sized package?. many people argue the other way round. With the quality of the D7100, X-E1/Pro1, Nex-6, etc. why bother with a FF sensor and have that extra weight of glass to lug around certainly this generations APS-C sensors give last generations FF sensors a run for their money the only artistic argument is DOF. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big FF fan, but apart from the M series and RX1 the only other options are bulky DSLRs and the IQ of the APS-C CSCs is so good, why should any manufacturer bother for what is a tiny market ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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